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Discussion Starter #101
Just an FYI;
I contacted RecStuff.com where I bought my rim recommended by Brian. The question is what the hole bore for the rim is; either cone or bowl. Bowl is used by VW, Audi and other manufacturers. Cone is more common. Brian and Mike the machinist who is doing the rework on the stock hub and rim, have been recommending the bowl style and Brian uses this style for his own personal set up.
I got a reply today from RecStuff Customer Service. Here's what I asked and his reply;

Ski Pro 3 said:
Question about wheel 12X4 4-Lug on 4" White Mod Trailer Wheel. What kind of lug hole seat are these wheels? Are they cone seat or ball seat?
The reply;
RecStuff Customer Service said:
Thanks for your question. I just pulled a wheel from the warehouse to check, and I can verify that it is a cone style seat. I'm including a photo below for reference:
Here's the photo he sent;
210834


As I mentioned before, I already ordered the bowl style lug bolts. Not sure if I will use them anyways, Brian has been doing so successfully all this time, or buy the cone style and return these.
Anyone have an opinion? Especially any machinists or engineers that might have a technical opinion?
 

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Ski just run it loose for a little while and then tighten them up.

Just kidding
 

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Just an FYI;
I contacted RecStuff.com where I bought my rim recommended by Brian. The question is what the hole bore for the rim is; either cone or bowl. Bowl is used by VW, Audi and other manufacturers. Cone is more common. Brian and Mike the machinist who is doing the rework on the stock hub and rim, have been recommending the bowl style and Brian uses this style for his own personal set up.
I got a reply today from RecStuff Customer Service. Here's what I asked and his reply;



The reply;


Here's the photo he sent;
View attachment 210834

As I mentioned before, I already ordered the bowl style lug bolts. Not sure if I will use them anyways, Brian has been doing so successfully all this time, or buy the cone style and return these.
Anyone have an opinion? Especially any machinists or engineers that might have a technical opinion?

Thanks for getting this info. I just ordered this set from fleabay. They are long, but will carefully cut them to fit. They were available and the price was right.

 

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Hi Jerry,

Those holes look like the ones on my wheels that I have been using the rounded or bowl style lug nuts/bolts on. I didn't know that there were two different styles. When I received some of the tapered ones like shown below, I tried one to see how it fit with the holes in the wheel. The round style seemed to fit better to me, but I am certainly not a lug nut/bolt expert.

The rounded bolt on the left below has actually been used to secure a wheel. The witness marks would seem to indicate that it has made edge contact with the wheel, as opposed to surface contact.

210836


Edited on 1-11-2021: After doing some research, if the picture below accurately identifies a conical or tapered seat, then I have been using the incorrect lug nuts/bolts on both of my trailer wheel conversions.

210837


I apologize for any erroneous information that I may have unintentionally posted on this subject. I now need to contemplate whether I want to continue to cheat (almost certain?) death by using the wrong lug nuts/bolts, or replace them with the correct ones.

210838
 

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Discussion Starter #105
I bought my lug bolts off Amazon and decided to return them for two reasons;
1. they were bowl style and the wheel has bee identified by the manufacturer as cone style.
2. They were to be black and were silver.

Amazon return ended up letting me keep them and refunding my payment. Great! So I ordered cone style. Here's the link;
Amazon cone-style lug bolts

There are a couple issues with these I want to point out;
1. They take a special socket to put on and off. I wanted standard head, but I could not find any without ordering way more than I needed and I hate to waste stuff and really hate to store stuff I don't need.
2. The threaded portion is 28mm long. I think this is great for the application; not too long and not too short.
3. They are black.
4. There are 4 in the package plus the special socket to put them on and off.

210845
 

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Ski,
It'd be just my luck to lose that special socket. I'd want an extra one. What's the thread on them? I may have some lugbolts that will work.

Mike
 

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I am accumulating parts and knowledge for this mod on my TW225 six speed build. I have decided to use regular hex head lug bolts just in case any of you want to steal whatever rear tire I end up with.

I spent too many years in the tire industry to want a lug nut key for a motorcycle wheel.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #108
Ski,
It'd be just my luck to lose that special socket. I'd want an extra one. What's the thread on them? I may have some lugbolts that will work.

Mike
Thanks!
They are 14mm x 1.5 pitch with the threads 28mm long. The socket is a standard for German BMW's according to the listing.
 

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Thanks!
They are 14mm x 1.5 pitch with the threads 28mm long. The socket is a standard for German BMW's according to the listing.
Unfortunately what I have are std thread, didn't even think of them being metric. Sorry. I guess they're used on some autos instead of studs and lugnuts? What I have are used on trailer hubs.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #110
Unfortunately what I have are std thread, didn't even think of them being metric. Sorry. I guess they're used on some autos instead of studs and lugnuts? What I have are used on trailer hubs.

Mike
I don't know why 14x1.5 was chosen for the thread, just that is what it is and so that's what I'm going with as well. Maybe someone else who knows the history behind the wagon wheel might chime in.
 

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I don't know why 14x1.5 was chosen for the thread, just that is what it is and so that's what I'm going with as well. Maybe someone else who knows the history behind the wagon wheel might chime in.
That would be question to ask Mike. The very first one that he did used pressed in studs and he supplied the lug nuts. I am not sure size threads they are. When I asked him to do my second one, I requested that he just just drill and tap the wheel mounting plate for lug bolts. I remember him mentioning something like "Oh, like a VW."
 

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Discussion Starter #112
That would be question to ask Mike. The very first one that he did used pressed in studs and he supplied the lug nuts. I am not sure size threads they are. When I asked him to do my second one, I requested that he just just drill and tap the wheel mounting plate for lug bolts. I remember him mentioning something like "Oh, like a VW."
I might, but not now. I notice the fabricated hub sold is also 14x1.5 thread holes. I'll ask there. I don't want to aggravate Mike with questions at this stage. But trailer wheels usually use trailer bolts; 1/2" x 20, like these;
Trailer wheel bolts

BTW, I notice your post is truncated, but when I quoted it, the edited showed up?

210879
 

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Discussion Starter #114

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Discussion Starter #115 (Edited)
Update on this project. I emailed Mike to check status. He said all work is done but he's got a flight at 1pm today and won't be able to ship until Monday. ?? Last he told me, I would pick it up from his son's machine shop in Roseville. He does the machine work, son does the welding. But, he forgot there is additional machining after the welding to true everything up to the bearing plane, so back to his shop for that. This will cost me extra in shipping, but I won't know how much that is until he gets back on Monday and prices that out. But hey, it's only money and I'm using my stimulus funds to pay for it all, so it's basically not costing me anything.

In the meantime, he sent me some photos. Let the drooling begin.
211050


211051



211052
 

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Discussion Starter #117
Thanks for the pics Jerry, you're almost there!

Now we know how Mike is cutting those notches in the wheel.
I know! He does beautiful work in those photos. I'm really getting excited. I'm hoping I get it next week some time. I also hope I don't run into trouble finding someone to mount my tire to the wheel. Looking at the tire and the wheel, I know I sure wouldn't do it if I were in the tire business. After all, a modified rim with a tire obviously not made for it? I know Les Schwab wouldn't touch it. I wonder if Walmart will? I'll try them first. If they ask what it's for, I'll tell them I'm building a special wheel barrow or something. As long as I don't mention it's something I'm gonna be riding on the street, or riding period. If Walmart won't then Big O. If all else fails, I'll go back to my old employer's yard up in the mountains. They have a vehicle maintenance department. They'll do it if I bring a pizza with me.... Ha!

I was hoping to finish my camo paint this week, but with the warm weather hitting 70 degrees, I have been getting yard work done. And by yard work, I mean clearing downed trees and stacking slash piles for burning. We had some strong North winds a few weeks ago that took out some pretty big trees. Some were snapped off 10' or more off the ground. A real mess. Now the weather has changed and today it snowed like a MF. So I spent some time in the garage resurrecting some dead RV/deep cycle batteries. (The secret is over voltage with current limiting to 2 amps or less) Also did some reorg in the garage. Now I'm ready to finish the paint job.
 

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Have you watched the folks in Walmart's tire shop work? I suspect the tire shop is where they send the new employees who are being trained for management.

If I had a weird tire/rim to mount and wanted it done right, I'd go to a local independent shop and ask if I could watch, then tip them well to lube the relationship for next time.


Different scenario, though similar... Just today, I gave up in the middle of doing tires on my Burgman. Twice, over the years, I have worked in the tire industry, so I pretend I think I know what I am doing and I ALWAYS mount my own motorcycle tires.

Well, the older I get, the richer I get, so I gave up trying to mount a Michelin car tire on the rear of my new Burgman... DON'T SAY IT... I KNOW I SHOULD NEVER RIDE A BIKE WITH A CAR TIRE ON IT... I DID IT FOR YEARS ON A REAL MOTORCYCLE... JUST LET ME BE AN IDIOT AND ENJOY IT FOR THE LITTLE TIME I HAVE LEFT ON THIS EARTH.

So I took both front and rear wheels and tires to a local dirt bike shop. The guy looked at me like I was from that other planet. I said I was a cash customer and needed no receipt.

I tipped him $20. I know I'll never wear out that rear tire, but I am doing this other project involving a weirdassed ATV tire on a modified trailer whee.... I guess you know the rest of the story.

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Discussion Starter #119
I had a set of trailer tires mounted on 16" rims for my flatbed at Walmart. The guys at my Walmart, way out here in the mountains, are mostly old, retired guys with tons of experience. I don't think any of them are under 50. They spooned those tires on lickty split, but did discover a couple bad lug bolts. Instead of changing them out, he had me run to the hardware store and buy a tap to chase the threads and to the auto parts store to get a couple new nuts. (Didn't carry that size). He saved me the trouble of doing this after I left and got the tire back home. I did tip him well.
 
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