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Discussion Starter #1
I just purchased a 2006 TW200 from a guy that bought it new, rode it for a short time (425 miles) and then parked it. It wasn't garaged as there was a lot of corrosion in most of the electrical plugs and whatnot. First things first.

Took the carb off and cleaned out all the sludge and varnish. Replaced the pilot valve. replaced the main jet. float and needle replaced as well. also replaced the choke assembly.

Bike starts, idles and runs fine. no smoke, no backfire, no lack of power.

run the bike around for a while and it cranks and cranks but will not start. Let sit for an hour or so and it fires right up and runs as previously mentioned.

run it around again and still refuses to start.

Replaced the following:

Wiring harness.

Coil.

Spark plug.

Spark plug cap.

CDI box.



Battery load test fine.

12 volts (ish) measured when off.

12.8-13.0 volts when running. Leads me to believe the stator and rectifier are both good.



Again, it will start just fine after setting for a period of time. Runs and drives great. shut if off.....no start.



One curious thing i found, I used an inductive timing light on the plug wire. While cranking (in a no start condition) it'll spark once or twice then nothing. No continuous spark while cranking...



Please help.
 

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I wish I could supply an answer, but sadly no.



It seems like you have replaced all the likely suspects.



A few of us have had to use the "blip" method of starting a warm/hot engine. Just push and quickly release the starter button, and it starts up. If we continue to hold down the starter button, it cranks and cranks. Though eventually it starts.



This may be related to your lack of spark after the first couple of cranks. Haven't solved the problem yet. But will follow this thread in hopes of a solution.



jb
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I really have no history with this bike. I'm no mechanical slouch by any means. The one or two sparks shouldn't really be that difficult to track down. I picked up the bike for a steal but I'm rapidly approaching the "dumping too much money" threshold!
 

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You don't mention replacing the battery. 12 volts ish? is really a little weak. Especially if the test was not under load I know Iknow you are going to say it cranks fine but that can be decieving with a TW. I am guessing that you don't have a kick start. Have you tried to bump start it when it is warm and won't start with the starter. Try that, if it starts by bump starting it then I would replace that battery next.
 

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Good advice from Heyduke about trying a bump start to rule out some other possibilities.



Unfortunately your situation isn't unique. Just a few posts under your's is a post about another member's TW with the same symptoms. The post is here. In that post Lizrdbrth (veteran TW savvy forum member) offered a good explanation of the problem and what to do about it. There's some other good input there as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Can I assume that the starter might be drawing too many amps? I've tried bump starting it several times and that just yields the walk of shame (pushing te bike back to the garage). I'll tear the starter down and take a look at it anyway. Not sure I completely understand the reference to an "arcing" relay though.

I have tried starting it with a booster hooked up to the battery when it doesn't want to fire. Great starter speed...still one to two "sparks" (measured with the timing light) then no more spark. With the booster hooked up that should eliminate the battery and slow starter speed.

I'm really stuck on the spark issue. Or lack thereof.
 

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I had a 96 that did the same thing. But I had a kick starter. It would always start easily with just 1 quick kick when warm.

Like others have said, I bet your starter is just not spinning it fast enough.



Make sure all your starter wiring connections and relays are in good shape. Maybe just a poor connection somewhere in the starter circuit.



Good luck!
 

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Can I assume that the starter might be drawing too many amps? I've tried bump starting it several times and that just yields the walk of shame (pushing te bike back to the garage). I'll tear the starter down and take a look at it anyway. Not sure I completely understand the reference to an "arcing" relay though.

I have tried starting it with a booster hooked up to the battery when it doesn't want to fire. Great starter speed...still one to two "sparks" (measured with the timing light) then no more spark. With the booster hooked up that should eliminate the battery and slow starter speed.

I'm really stuck on the spark issue. Or lack thereof.




Your starter solenoid contains a set of points. They interupt the fat positive wire and act as a switch. When everything is groovy the faces of the points meet each other perfectly with no resistence and your starter turns full speed. As they age they become oxidized and pitted and when power is applied they "arc", like a welder. Or more like a sightly loose battery connection, heating up the points and slowing down the starter.



When you jump the solenoid you take the solenoid points out of the equation. It's just one of the checks in diagnosing your problem.



In order, the voltage required to generate a spark is dependent first on cranking speed, then on a good pulse coil, cdi and ignition coil and on good electrical connections everywhere in between.



One other thing you can try which will indicate a slow starter is to remove the spark plug and with a full battery try your timing light again.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Your starter solenoid contains a set of points. They interupt the fat positive wire and act as a switch. When everything is groovy the faces of the points meet each other perfectly with no resistence and your starter turns full speed. As they age they become oxidized and pitted and when power is applied they "arc", like a welder. Or more like a sightly loose battery connection, heating up the points and slowing down the starter.



When you jump the solenoid you take the solenoid points out of the equation. It's just one of the checks in diagnosing your problem.



The voltage required to generate a spark is solely dependent on cranking speed.
That makes pretty solid sense to me. In a earlier post you mentioned upgrading to a better starter relay. You wouldn't happen to have a part number?
 

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No, I don't. Mine has KLR650 solenoid. Most Japanese bikes use a Denso solenoid and most of them will fit in the holder. Just get one with a higher rating that will still fit in the holder.



Upgrading the solenid is cool and all, but you've already spent a bucketful of munny on things that haven't solved your problem. Let's narrow it down.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That makes pretty solid sense to me. In a earlier post you mentioned upgrading to a better starter relay. You wouldn't happen to have a part number?
update....

pulled the starter off and cleaned up the brushes and whatnot. cleaned the positive cable and terminal. warmed the bike up to recreate the "no start" condition. Jumped across the starter relay and still does not start. spent some time using the blip start method and got it running. This is kinda a new development>>>>turns out that i can stop and start the engine seemly all day long using just the kill switch. when the key switch is cycled to the off position, kill switch to run, no start. cycle the key switch rapidly 6-10 times.....kill switch on...Vroom! Vroom! kill switch off. cycle the key switch one time...no start. 6-10 cycles of key switch...kill switch on...Vroom! Vroom!

So, I don't think the key switch is the suspect. I'm guessing its the little white relay just ahead of the CDI box?



Thoughts?
 

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...Keyswitch contacts!!!!
That's a surprising answer. Did you check to see if there is a continuous spark with the engine hot?



How did you test for the problem? ... or did you replace every item in the electrical circuit?




Did you replace the key switch?



Sorry for all the questions, but I have been chasing this problem on and off for a couple of years.



jb
 

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That's a surprising answer. Did you check to see if there is a continuous spark with the engine hot?



How did you test for the problem? ... or did you replace every item in the electrical circuit?




Did you replace the key switch?



Sorry for all the questions, but I have been chasing this problem on and off for a couple of years.



jb
Hmmmmm. I come here to learn as much as to help.
 

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interesting. Mine won't start right up after riding for awhile and like someone else said, I just kick it and starts right up. I always figured it was in the carb and maybe the starter wasn't spinning engine fast enough. I'll have to try just killing engine with kill switch and leave key alone and see what happens.
 

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It appears that cjnett1 isn't going to offer any further explanation.



Can anyone help me make sense of why the key switch contacts would cause the ignition circuit to fire twice and then stop firing when holding down the starter button?



I'm content to continue using the blip-start method, but am puzzled as to the cause.



TWBrian said replacing the CDI fixed his TW. I really don't want to replace it, or the key switch, if it's not necessary.



To confirm cjnett1's observation of the spark plug firing, I put a timing light on the plug wire and pressed the starer button.



As he said, the plug fires twice and then does not fire again as long as the starter button is held down. When the starter button is released, the plug fires again. That's usually enough to start the engine.



Yes, there is a long and tedious trouble shooting procedure in the manual. And it may come down to that.



Any other suggestions or explantions?



jb
 

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It appears that cjnett1 isn't going to offer any further explanation.



Can anyone help me make sense of why the key switch contacts would cause the ignition circuit to fire twice and then stop firing when holding down the starter button?



I'm content to continue using the blip-start method, but am puzzled as to the cause.



TWBrian said replacing the CDI fixed his TW. I really don't want to replace it, or the key switch, if it's not necessary.



To confirm cjnett1's observation of the spark plug firing, I put a timing light on the plug wire and pressed the starer button.



As he said, the plug fires twice and then does not fire again as long as the starter button is held down. When the starter button is released, the plug fires again. That's usually enough to start the engine.



Yes, there is a long and tedious trouble shooting procedure in the manual. And it may come down to that.



Any other suggestions or explantions?



jb


All I can think of is if the ignition circuit cutoff relay is loosing power to stay energized and killing the spark, but if the sidestand is down that would bypass that relay. Plus, a new switch wouldn't solve the cutoff relay issue.



The engine stop switch obviously works because it provides the ground to the starter button.



Not sure why it sparks twice then quits?? It's tough to draw conclusions off one instance. But knowing the new switch solved the problem basically supports the claim it was that switch.



Definitely strange and doesn't sound logical. I'd lean more towards the CDI or other parts of the wiring, but, again, the switch seemed to have solved the issue? Except for TWBrian with the new CDI.



 

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pmtg,



Thanks for your thoughts and the wiring diagram.



I think I'll remove the key switch and check continuity, and perhaps bypass it, and see what happens.



jb
 
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