TW200 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

Registered
Joined
976 Posts
Well crap, there goes all of my money.

Does anybody want to buy a Tiger Explorer?
 

Registered
Joined
2,410 Posts
This thing looks like a rework of the old Magna V65 that I loved so much. It was an 1100cc and would tear your hands off of the handlebars. 1200cc's for dual sport. How do you keep from spinning the back tire??
I would have preferred a re-work of the VFR 800 as an adv-touring bike.

jb
 

Registered
Joined
1,382 Posts
I don't know, seems like Honda really is missing the mark with this one. I'm curious to see what the price point is, if its in the 16k ballpark like the vfr1200 is.... no thanks.

It appears its primary focus is going to be road but compared to other bikes in its class( 1200 Multistrada and BMW 1000XR come to mind quickly in the ADV touring class) its already seriously outgunned in both performance and features. It is low on power, really heavy(over 610#) has odd sized wheels for a road focused bike(std sportbike sizes would be better) and no active suspension, lean sensitive ABS, cruise control, adjustable engine maps, etc. Its based off the VFR1200 which by all accounts was a dud here in the states which is why they practically had to give them away.

I love V4 Honda motyorcycles but to me they have lost their way with them. They are too heavy, low on power and don't perform compared to their rivals. I test rode a VFR1200F before i bought my Multistrada and didn't like it from minute one. Nanny torque controls on first and second bothered me and i hate linked brakes. It was also really heavy and didn't handle real well, suspension was mush. In my eyes Honda needs to bring back bikes like the VF500/700/1000 bikes. If they want to make a standard bring back the V65 Sabre( i loved mine when i had it), shoot that bike in 1985 had more power than this 1200 does today and probably handles about the same.
 

Registered
Joined
976 Posts
I don't think Honda missed the mark at all with the VFR1200X Crosstourer. I think they nailed exactly what they set out to build, which is a large ADV tourer that is focused on doing the things that 90%+ of large ADV tourer riders do with these bikes. It's primarily a highway tourer that can haul 2 people and a big luggage kit hundreds of miles a day comfortably, and you can ride it down a dirt road to a campsite or over a few unpaved passes while you're far from home on a trip without breaking fairings and stuff.

I don't think the VFR1200X is going up against the Ducati Multistrada, BMW 1000XR, or KTM 1290. Those bikes are all about performance, at the expense of touring comfort and reliability (i.e. maintenance intervals, shaft drive). That's not a knock on any of those awesome bikes, their focus is just somewhere else.

The VFR is probably closest in its balance to the Triumph Tiger Explorer, which also trends to the paved side of ADV riding. If the VFR was available here a year and a half ago, I would have bought one instead of my Tiger Explorer.

The VFR is more up against the BMW R1200GS, the Yamaha Super Tenere, the Triumph Tiger Explorer, and Sport-Touring bikes than anything else. In that field, it's a pretty exciting new option. It's a very well-reviewed bike in the overseas markets where it's available. In typical Honda fashion, it's a little porky for its segment but you can be sure it'll be solid as a rock and hey, rocks are heavy too.

The VFR1200F was kind of a flop largely because it didn't have a big enough gas tank to be a good sport tourer, and it's hopelessly outmatched in performance by the much lighter hypersports that it was thrown in with. That V4 looks pretty wimpy next to a ZX-14R, but next to a Super Tenere it's downright face-melting.

The Africa Twin is Honda's attempt to tackle the more dirt-oriented middleweight ADV market, that's the bike they're putting up against the F800GS, Tiger 800XC, and used KTM 990s. Now I personally think the new AT is a very disappointing swing-and-a-miss, but the VFR isn't pretending to be a giant dirt bike, it's a touring bike.

I'm psyched about it, it's probably going to be my next big bike.
 

Registered
Joined
1,382 Posts
I think they are competing in the same class and its a competitive one. I think you would be surprised at what the European bikes can do. The Multistrada for instance is an absolute jack of all trades and can do all of those things you mentioned extremely well and if you want will embarrass some sport bikes and can do track days. Its a very comfortable bike to ride on all day two up if you wanted. With the electronic suspension its literally a swiss army knife with few compromises. Reliability has been a non issue as well in general for the multi, not just mine but the bike overall has a good rep for reliability. Mine has over 20k on the clock and has never been in for a break fix, just maint and tires. And the maint intervals are not really different than the honda calls for. 7.5k oil changes and 15k on the valves and belts. I have done plenty of long trips on mine and the chain has never been an issue. I adjust it but maybe once a year.

If i had to knock the multi in one place it would be range, its not as thirsty as the VFR1200 but its not great, the multi has a 5.4g tank and i think it could use another gallon. I can stretch 200 out of it but i would like more wiggle room. I dont think Honda addressed it enough on the X either, they only added like half a gallon to the tank over the vfr1200f, not sure if will make 200 miles on a tank. I guess we will wait and see..

I don't know what the maint intervals on the KTM or Beamer are but im sure they are similar.
 

Registered
Joined
2,461 Posts
Why [won't] Honda or Yamaha make a nice street legal CRF,YZF dual sport?

I agree. They really should get on it already.

I'll even settle for a 320 pound WR450R...
 

Registered
Joined
6,355 Posts
I think they are competing in the same class and its a competitive one. I think you would be surprised at what the European bikes can do. The Multistrada for instance is an absolute jack of all trades and can do all of those things you mentioned extremely well and if you want will embarrass some sport bikes and can do track days. Its a very comfortable bike to ride on all day two up if you wanted. With the electronic suspension its literally a swiss army knife with few compromises. Reliability has been a non issue as well in general for the multi, not just mine but the bike overall has a good rep for reliability. Mine has over 20k on the clock and has never been in for a break fix, just maint and tires. And the maint intervals are not really different than the honda calls for. 7.5k oil changes and 15k on the valves and belts. I have done plenty of long trips on mine and the chain has never been an issue. I adjust it but maybe once a year.

If i had to knock the multi in one place it would be range, its not as thirsty as the VFR1200 but its not great, the multi has a 5.4g tank and i think it could use another gallon. I can stretch 200 out of it but i would like more wiggle room. I dont think Honda addressed it enough on the X either, they only added like half a gallon to the tank over the vfr1200f, not sure if will make 200 miles on a tank. I guess we will wait and see..

I don't know what the maint intervals on the KTM or Beamer are but im sure they are similar.

I am a member over on the CB500X forum and most people report between 225 and 250 miles between fill ups. YMMV.



Tom
 

Registered
Joined
976 Posts
I am a member over on the CB500X forum and most people report between 225 and 250 miles between fill ups. YMMV.
Tom
I read that Jenny of JMo and Piglet fame was even able to eke out closer to 300 on a few tanks. The updated 2016 CB500X is supposed to have a bigger tank too, I haven't come across any definite volume figures yet but if it's a significant increase then the new CB-X *could* reliably see a 300 mile range without really working for it.

I think that with a RRP CB500X for solo adventuring and a VFR1200X for 2-up touring, there's not really a whole lot of riding that would be out of reach. At least the kind of riding I want to do.
 

Registered
Joined
1,382 Posts
I am a member over on the CB500X forum and most people report between 225 and 250 miles between fill ups. YMMV.



Tom
You are talking about the 500X right? If so that's a totally different animal form the 1200. The 1200X is being advertised as having a 5.4G tank which is not enough for 200+ mile range if it gets the same 30-35mpg freeway that the VFR1200f gets. The VFR1200 motor is very thirsty even for a 1200 and its one of the biggest gripes people have with it, 30-35mpg is pretty poor. the VFR1200F is sold as a sport tourer but has the range of a 600cc sportbike. The quick math say that the VFR1200X will have a 180 mile range if you run the tank bone dry and get 35mpg. Realistic range id bet will be 150.

On another subject do you own a CB500X? If so how do you like it? I'm thinking about buying another bike in addition to the TW for my girlfriend to ride and that one is on my short list. For her everything about it is just right size wise.
 

Registered
Joined
6,355 Posts
You are talking about the 500X right? If so that's a totally different animal form the 1200. The 1200X is being advertised as having a 5.4G tank which is not enough for 200+ mile range if it gets the same 30-35mpg freeway that the VFR1200f gets. The VFR1200 motor is very thirsty even for a 1200 and its one of the biggest gripes people have with it, 30-35mpg is pretty poor. the VFR1200F is sold as a sport tourer but has the range of a 600cc sportbike. The quick math say that the VFR1200X will have a 180 mile range if you run the tank bone dry and get 35mpg. Realistic range id bet will be 150.

On another subject do you own a CB500X? If so how do you like it? I'm thinking about buying another bike in addition to the TW for my girlfriend to ride and that one is on my short list. For her everything about it is just right size wise.
Well when you said the "X" I thought you were referring to the 500X. My bad. No I do not own one yet. I have done two test rides on them and that will be my new bike come spring. I was supposed to have purchased one this past spring but life got in the way....


Tom
 

Registered
Joined
976 Posts
You are talking about the 500X right? If so that's a totally different animal form the 1200. The 1200X is being advertised as having a 5.4G tank which is not enough for 200+ mile range if it gets the same 30-35mpg freeway that the VFR1200f gets. The VFR1200 motor is very thirsty even for a 1200 and its one of the biggest gripes people have with it, 30-35mpg is pretty poor. the VFR1200F is sold as a sport tourer but has the range of a 600cc sportbike. The quick math say that the VFR1200X will have a 180 mile range if you run the tank bone dry and get 35mpg. Realistic range id bet will be 150.

On another subject do you own a CB500X? If so how do you like it? I'm thinking about buying another bike in addition to the TW for my girlfriend to ride and that one is on my short list. For her everything about it is just right size wise.
the VFR1200X has a 5.68 gallon tank, so more like a 200 mile range at 35 mpg. It's apparently rated at 46 mpg, but in Imperial gallons, so about 38 mpg here in US gallons. That is pretty thirsty, but it sounds like a decent enough range for most touring.
 

Registered
Joined
1,104 Posts
There is definitely a CB500XRR in my future.
 

Registered
Joined
976 Posts
The updated 2016 CB500X is supposed to have a bigger tank too, I haven't come across any definite volume figures yet but if it's a significant increase then the new CB-X *could* reliably see a 300 mile range without really working for it.
Well, the bigger tank for the 2016 CB500X is a bust. Apparently the Canadian Honda Powersports website has released the volume, a measly 0.3L increase.

The good news is, if you're going RRP stage 3, there is essentially no reason to go for the updated model. When the updated models come rolling in, the price of leftover '14 and '15 CB500Xs should drop like a rock.

That new brown paint job is pretty great though, minus the cheesy graphics.

e-16_CB500X_ABS_Matte_Brown_Metallic-561x374.jpg
 

Registered
Joined
6,355 Posts
Well, the bigger tank for the 2016 CB500X is a bust. Apparently the Canadian Honda Powersports website has released the volume, a measly 0.3L increase.

The good news is, if you're going RRP stage 3, there is essentially no reason to go for the updated model. When the updated models come rolling in, the price of leftover '14 and '15 CB500Xs should drop like a rock.

That new brown paint job is pretty great though, minus the cheesy graphics.

View attachment 23582
I don't know about that. They allegedly improved the shifting, hinged the gas cap, and put adjustable front forks on the new model. LED lighting front and back as well. Some solid improvements in my opinion. I do like this color AND that they chose to remove that terrible X from the graphics. Slightly different beak as well.




Tom
 

Registered
Joined
976 Posts
I don't know about that. They allegedly improved the shifting, hinged the gas cap, and put adjustable front forks on the new model. LED lighting front and back as well. Some solid improvements in my opinion. I do like this color AND that they chose to remove that terrible X from the graphics. Slightly different beak as well.
Tom
All true, but the RRP Stage 3 kit gives you adjustable front suspension too. I'm already seeing new CB500Xs discounted to around $1500 under the 2016 MSRP, I'm just not sure if the other upgrades are worth $1500+ more money. Progress marches on, but by all accounts the current CB-X is a pretty dang good bike as-is.

Personally, I think all graphics are terrible, and I don't like the new ones any better than the old "X". I'm peeling them off whatever they are.

Still, if you aren't going to do the RRP conversion then it would probably make sense to hold out for the 2016.
 

Registered
Joined
6,355 Posts
All true, but the RRP Stage 3 kit gives you adjustable front suspension too. I'm already seeing new CB500Xs discounted to around $1500 under the 2016 MSRP, I'm just not sure if the other upgrades are worth $1500+ more money. Progress marches on, but by all accounts the current CB-X is a pretty dang good bike as-is.

Personally, I think all graphics are terrible, and I don't like the new ones any better than the old "X". I'm peeling them off whatever they are.

Still, if you aren't going to do the RRP conversion then it would probably make sense to hold out for the 2016.
I think if I did the RRP I would only do the stage one. I don't plan on doing any single tracks on mine. Hell I can't find many legal single tracks around here.



Tom
 

Registered
Joined
976 Posts
I think if I did the RRP I would only do the stage one. I don't plan on doing any single tracks on mine. Hell I can't find many legal single tracks around here.
Tom
Yeah, Stage 3 is at the top of my build sheet so I'm definitely looking for the lowest price of admission I can find. Leftover dealer stock is getting me a lot more excited than the new model!
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top