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For those who don't know me (which most of you don't,I'm new on this forum) I'm Lizrdbrth's son and I work for the largest Chinese manufacturer of scooters and atv's. Recently my boss came to me with the idea of creating a low cost dual sport bike (around 2k retail) so I'm in the process of designing a few and would love some outside input on what you guys would desire in such a bike.

There are a few restriction, but everything else is up in the air

- Can't exceed 250cc
- Has to be low tech, cdi ignition, carburated only (no fuel injection, no computer management systems)
- Has to meet EPA requirements ( loaded with smog crap, big ugly lights)

What do you think?
 

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welcome to the forum.it's good to have russe's son on here,the first family of tw's so to speak .it would be nice to see a low seat height on the chinese bvike ,6 speed,250,big rear rack, led lights,hd skid plate.that would be on my wish list,aswell as dustin88's wish of quality.
 

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For those who don't know me (which most of you don't,I'm new on this forum) I'm Lizrdbrth's son and I work for the largest Chinese manufacturer of scooters and atv's. Recently my boss came to me with the idea of creating a low cost dual sport bike (around 2k retail) so I'm in the process of designing a few and would love some outside input on what you guys would desire in such a bike.

There are a few restriction, but everything else is up in the air

- Can't exceed 250cc
- Has to be low tech, cdi ignition, carburated only (no fuel injection, no computer management systems)
- Has to meet EPA requirements ( loaded with smog crap, big ugly lights)

What do you think?
OUch...I'm going to have to agree with the last post..

Pot-metal is no substitute for high grade steel or aluminum....

But, prove me wrong.
I don't think I've ever spoken with anyone who works for a Chinese manufacturer about the production process, only forums and reviews by consumers...At one point I was actually interested in the Chinese made "SSR xf250". The bike looks pretty sweet. But still, I was advised if I wanted a "reliable bike", stick with a Japanese bike. Quality and construction really reflect the "low cost".....

Anyway, not trying to knock your efforts. And much condolences for the loss of your Pops. Love to hear your opinion.

Cheers!

-K
 

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Discussion Starter #9
welcome to the forum.it's good to have russe's son on here,the first family of tw's so to speak .it would be nice to see a low seat height on the chinese bvike ,6 speed,250,big rear rack, led lights,hd skid plate.that would be on my wish list,aswell as dustin88's wish of quality.
Thank you Thank you :D Ya even the advrider guys are saying low seat ( never crossed my mind as i'm about 6 foot) The only thing that would be hard is the 6 speed because the motors are already there, I just have a few to choose from. And then they would basically adapt the chassis around the motor. The choices would be 250 either air or water cooled or 125 horizontal. Obviously the 250 air cooled would be the middle ground as the 250 water cooled would add tons of weight and the 125 would be greatly under-powered.
 

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OUch...I'm going to have to agree with the last post..

Pot-metal is no substitute for high grade steel or aluminum....

But, prove me wrong.
I don't think I've ever spoken with anyone who works for a Chinese manufacturer about the production process, only forums and reviews by consumers...At one point I was actually interested in the Chinese made "SSR xf250". The bike looks pretty sweet. But still, I was advised if I wanted a "reliable bike", stick with a Japanese bike. Quality and construction really reflect the "low cost".....

Anyway, not trying to knock your efforts. And much condolences for the loss of your Pops. Love to hear your opinion.

Cheers!

-K
eh with the chinese it is what it is. And from consumers you hear alot of negatives mainly because two reasons 1) you have the naive uneducated consumer who thinks they are getting jap quality (which I'll admit there are many salesmen that will tell you that you are) and 2) you have the loyalist mechanic that will put down a china bike as much as possible because its not in his MMI handbook.

But anyways I wont harp on those guys too much. Main thing with the China stuff is it takes alot of maintenance to be reliable. But like I said it is what it is. And as for the ssr bike Ive personally tested it about a year ago, decent bike, but two major downfalls are the top speed is not 80mph like everyone claims, its only 65, like every other chinese 250. And second was that they used rubber bushings in the swingarm so at speed you would get a mean case of wobbles. But they could easily fix that with sealed bearings or needle bearings.

all in all im just looking for input as i would feel pretty accomplished at the young age of 24 to have designed my own bike. chinese or not
 

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my condolences on your dad. hope to meet you at the SLO russ ride in june.

i'd think you'd be able to review his bike to find numerous suggestions as to what he valued in a bike. obviously his wasn't the only way to skin a cat, but he put more thought into every nut and bolt than most.

what makes the tdub so good:
1. dependable
2. low seat height
3. crawling speed
4. simple mechanics

the tdub is a great platform for numerous personalization projects, yet people still end up with similar mods:
1. larger tank
2. better skid plate
3. wider pegs
4. higher bars

no one would complain about a bit more power and a 6th speed, but no one wants a 400 beast that is too fast and too high.
many things come down to aesthetics, which obviously run the gamut, but a simple, dependable bike that one can tinker with... gotta love the t-dub.

i'll be curious to see what you come up with.

here's a link of many modded bikes to get some ideas from:
GUIDE TO BUILDING AN ADVENTURE READY TW200

i'm partial to mine of course, but there are some beautiful bikes on here!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
my condolences on your dad. hope to meet you at the SLO russ ride in june.

i'd think you'd be able to review his bike to find numerous suggestions as to what he valued in a bike. obviously his wasn't the only way to skin a cat, but he put more thought into every nut and bolt than most.

what makes the tdub so good:
1. dependable
2. low seat height
3. crawling speed
4. simple mechanics

the tdub is a great platform for numerous personalization projects, yet people still end up with similar mods:
1. larger tank
2. better skid plate
3. wider pegs
4. higher bars

no one would complain about a bit more power and a 6th speed, but no one wants a 400 beast that is too fast and too high.
many things come down to aesthetics, which obviously run the gamut, but a simple, dependable bike that one can tinker with... gotta love the t-dub.

i'll be curious to see what you come up with.

here's a link of many modded bikes to get some ideas from:
GUIDE TO BUILDING AN ADVENTURE READY TW200

i'm partial to mine of course, but there are some beautiful bikes on here!
I'll be there except I'll be on my dads KLR and If my uncle goes he'll have the Tdub

and thanks for the link!! funny, I'm getting alot more positive and helpful feedback on here vs adv rider lol gotta love the Tdub (the bike, the community, the whole package)
 

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eh with the chinese it is what it is. And from consumers you hear alot of negatives mainly because two reasons 1) you have the naive uneducated consumer who thinks they are getting jap quality (which I'll admit there are many salesmen that will tell you that you are) and 2) you have the loyalist mechanic that will put down a china bike as much as possible because its not in his MMI handbook.

But anyways I wont harp on those guys too much. Main thing with the China stuff is it takes alot of maintenance to be reliable. But like I said it is what it is. And as for the ssr bike Ive personally tested it about a year ago, decent bike, but two major downfalls are the top speed is not 80mph like everyone claims, its only 65, like every other chinese 250. And second was that they used rubber bushings in the swingarm so at speed you would get a mean case of wobbles. But they could easily fix that with sealed bearings or needle bearings.

all in all im just looking for input as i would feel pretty accomplished at the young age of 24 to have designed my own bike. chinese or not
Thanks for the honest response!!! Good luck with the build!!!
 

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I'll be there except I'll be on my dads KLR and If my uncle goes he'll have the Tdub

and thanks for the link!! funny, I'm getting alot more positive and helpful feedback on here vs adv rider lol gotta love the Tdub (the bike, the community, the whole package)
For sure!!! ALL awesome, open minded people on this, here, forum :):)

Plus ADV rider forums probably didn't know how well liked your Pops was amongst us TW riders. I've come to realize TW riders are a breed of their own. Which I'm proud to be a part of. Glad to have you here, Spawn :):)
 

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Some of the fastest, safest, most comfortable, highest tech, production multi-hull cruising yachts in the world are built in China. Google gunboat catamaran. It isn't that China can't build good products. China builds to a price point in an efficient manner. You get what you pay for no matter the origin of the product.

Sorry to say, you've said it yourself, you are limited to certain engines already in production. It will be the same with all other major components. At that price point you are limited to off-the-shelf components and cheap ones at that, to take advantage of economies of scale, and it just isn't possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. You are not going to get a high tech modern dualsport for $2000 no matter where it is built. The only real change you can make to what is already available is cosmetic. Sometimes reality bites.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Some of the fastest, safest, most comfortable, highest tech, production multi-hull cruising yachts in the world are built in China. Google gunboat catamaran. It isn't that China can't build good products. China builds to a price point in an efficient manner. You get what you pay for no matter the origin of the product.

Sorry to say, you've said it yourself, you are limited to certain engines already in production. It will be the same with all other major components. At that price point you are limited to off-the-shelf components and cheap ones at that, to take advantage of economies of scale, and it just isn't possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. You are not going to get a high tech modern dualsport for $2000 no matter where it is built. The only real change you can make to what is already available is cosmetic. Sometimes reality bites.
I hear ya qwerty and you're right, to a point. Yes, the engines, cdi, rectifier, those sort of things are already in production. What I do have control of are things like frame design, body design, fuel capacity, suspension design, wheel size, seat height etc. And we can discuss product materials, manufacturing methods, QC protocols all day long. But, thats out of my control.

What I can do though, is take everyones ideas and suggestions and design a bike that offers the best bang for the buck to the newbies and cheapskates. May be designing a shiny turd, but oh well.
 
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