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New to forum, and interested in best ways to increase power with least amount of work/cost. Not into major changes. Going to 15/49 sprockets provide motivation. Any thoughts on best suggestions.
Improving horsepower
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269 Posts
buya different bike
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Its funny to me that people want to turn a tractor into a sports car. The TW is mule and has approximately 12-14hp. A 10% gain will net you 1.2 - 1.4hp Really what you want to is improve responsiveness and tune the bike for how you are goin to ride it. Personally could care less about top speed, I like offroad trails and obsticles so I been trying differt things to help bottom end grunt.
Sounds like your gear choice will keep you on pavement and lower elevation lacking mountains roads. Tells more about your tw and how you plan on using it.
Its funny to me that people want to turn a tractor into a sports car. The TW is mule and has approximately 12-14hp. A 10% gain will net you 1.2 - 1.4hp Really what you want to is improve responsiveness and tune the bike for how you are goin to ride it. Personally could care less about top speed, I like offroad trails and obsticles so I been trying differt things to help bottom end grunt.
Sounds like your gear choice will keep you on pavement and lower elevation lacking mountains roads. Tells more about your tw and how you plan on using it.
Joined
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10 Posts
buya different bike![]()
Its funny to me that people want to turn a tractor into a sports car. The TW is mule and has approximately 12-14hp. A 10% gain will net you 1.2 - 1.4hp Really what you want to is improve responsiveness and tune the bike for how you are goin to ride it. Personally could care less about top speed, I like offroad trails and obsticles so I been trying differt things to help bottom end grunt.
Sounds like your gear choice will keep you on pavement and lower elevation lacking mountains roads. Tells more about your tw and how you plan on using it.
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305 Posts
Other than going through the carb tuning procedure posted by Qwerty in the stickied (?) thread you will not get any horse power gains without quite major engine work and spending a fair amount of money.
The standard exhaust is as good as any, the airbox flows plenty for a standard engine.
If you are not very heavy and rarely ride in the mountains 15/50 sprockets will help on street a bit.
Sorry I can't be more constructive.
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Your assessment is correct. Not many big hills up here, mostly logging roads, but spend most time of two lane highways. Liked TW because of size and ability to take along. Just trying to get one bike to be everything! But life is a compromise!
There's no other bike out there like the TW for it's simplicity, looks, fat tire, low seat height. It's very offroad orientated but don't be discouraged when others think you're crazy for riding it 90% street, because I ride it 90% street and love it (love it when ridden at speeds it can handle, otherwise you'll get frustrated). And I was also in the same boat as you wanting more power when I first purchased it.
Follow the typical uncorking rules of any bike...more air, more fuel, free up exhaust. With the help of this forum you can have more air with airbox mods, more fuel through jetting, and the exhaust is actually fine as is unless you want added sound.
Get a stage 1 camshaft from Web Cam. ***EDIT: I now see you don't want major changes. Cam isn't major but I'm pretty sure it's more than what you were asking for. It is a nice upgrade that's way cheaper than an exhaust system, for future reference
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Everyone finds different gearing they like for different reasons. I'm running 14/47 and its nice but have thought about 15/52 to help the bike manage slight hills and head wind better AND keeping a reasonable 1st gear. I tried 14/44 and it sucked, but others claim they love it. I think they love it because of the rpm drop cruising at ~60mph not because they gained top speed, whereas I wanted to cruise over 70mph and 14/44 was way too steep.
Oh and don't be afraid to let the little engine rev.
Follow the typical uncorking rules of any bike...more air, more fuel, free up exhaust. With the help of this forum you can have more air with airbox mods, more fuel through jetting, and the exhaust is actually fine as is unless you want added sound.
Get a stage 1 camshaft from Web Cam. ***EDIT: I now see you don't want major changes. Cam isn't major but I'm pretty sure it's more than what you were asking for. It is a nice upgrade that's way cheaper than an exhaust system, for future reference
Everyone finds different gearing they like for different reasons. I'm running 14/47 and its nice but have thought about 15/52 to help the bike manage slight hills and head wind better AND keeping a reasonable 1st gear. I tried 14/44 and it sucked, but others claim they love it. I think they love it because of the rpm drop cruising at ~60mph not because they gained top speed, whereas I wanted to cruise over 70mph and 14/44 was way too steep.
Oh and don't be afraid to let the little engine rev.
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There is a lot more joy to be found in a properly running stock TW than most people will credit, because so few are properly running. Changes often get made to already-sick bikes in an effort to correct a perceived lack of power which is then only magnified by things like bigger pipes, jetting and sprocket changes. This may not apply in your case, but even experienced folks sometimes jump the obvious.
The best advice given to newcomers to the TW on this site is often the least heeded. Get a manual, cover every inch of the bike to a gnat's butt, then ride the crud out of it before changing anything.
Even if you bought new, the likelihood that the dealer did what he was supposed to do when he charged you for setup is zilch. A day or two spent adjusting and setting up your bike by the book is time well spent.
Just my .02. The best baseline is to have a baseline. If everything's right you'll enjoy your 15/50 a lot more. On a bike this small if one thing is off you may hate it.
The best advice given to newcomers to the TW on this site is often the least heeded. Get a manual, cover every inch of the bike to a gnat's butt, then ride the crud out of it before changing anything.
Even if you bought new, the likelihood that the dealer did what he was supposed to do when he charged you for setup is zilch. A day or two spent adjusting and setting up your bike by the book is time well spent.
Just my .02. The best baseline is to have a baseline. If everything's right you'll enjoy your 15/50 a lot more. On a bike this small if one thing is off you may hate it.
buya different bike![]()
Its funny to me that people want to turn a tractor into a sports car. The TW is mule and has approximately 12-14hp. A 10% gain will net you 1.2 - 1.4hp Really what you want to is improve responsiveness and tune the bike for how you are goin to ride it. Personally could care less about top speed, I like offroad trails and obsticles so I been trying differt things to help bottom end grunt.
Sounds like your gear choice will keep you on pavement and lower elevation lacking mountains roads. Tells more about your tw and how you plan on using it.
Because it's fun making daily drivers do things no one else would ever expect from them...
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7,044 Posts
Totally agree. The first step is a complete tune and service, from the ground up. Check torque on every fastener, make sure everything is greased (especially the swingarm), all electric connections are clean and tight, etc. Don't assume for a seond a new bike will not have problems. This is true for all vehicles, not just TWs and not just motorcycles.
Second step, do an oil change to an oil specifically formulated for motorcycles with combined sumps and wet clutches. Do not assume Yamaha put such an oil in the bike from the factory or that the dealer used such an oil when setting up the bike or that the previous owner used such an oil.
Third, if you have a North American market model, is to replicate the state of carb tuning the rest of the world gets. This is a $5 fix to a government mandated environmentally friendly state of tune that creates a plethora of rideability complaints, from hard starting to surging to poor throttle response to excessive warm-up time to pre-ignition to engine overheating. this is not a TW-specific problem, but applies to every street-legal motorcycle with a carb built since 1980 or thereabouts.
Fourth, once the engine is broken in, about 2000 miles, switch to a high quality ester-based true synthetic oil formulated specifically for motorcycles with combined sumps and wet clutches. Switching Tdud from Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil to Mobil 1 Racing 4T Motorcycle oil gained 3-4mpg, presumably due to reduced friction losses, which means more power passed to the primary drive.
Finally, the power-limiting component in the stock list of TW parts is the camshaft. The air filter and box, carb, head, valves, and exhaust will all flow significantly more air than the camshaft allows. Other than a limited set of extreme operating conditions, all you'll get from modifying other components is more noise. The engine is so under-cammed stock that a moderate performance grind has been shown to increase torque from idle to redline, with no other mods other than replicating the world market state of carb tuning, as shown by the dyno graphs posted on this site. Note that no other mod, from intake to exhaust, has the same rate of documented success.
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I'm inclined to agree with you. Since increasing the valve size isn't really an option with our heads the next best option is to play with cams. The factory left a lot of latitude there.
I've not done it, but if I had to hazard a guess I'm fairly certain it would provide the most potential bang for the buck on an otherwise stock engine.
Here's to sleepers, no matter their form!
I've not done it, but if I had to hazard a guess I'm fairly certain it would provide the most potential bang for the buck on an otherwise stock engine.
Here's to sleepers, no matter their form!
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Please dont get me wrong, he clearly said "increase power with least amount of work/cost. Not into major changes." And without the investment of time and money (and more money if you pay a shop) the TW is not the the machine for easy gains.
I love power and speed and I was just trying tho let the guy know there is no cheap and easy magic box for our TWs. Just curious, how much more does it cost to make a 40k+ diesel turn a 11.42
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About as much as it costs to make a TW sustain 70mph on the highway.
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Lots of validity to everything said here.
There's a saying that goes "If you're stepping on eggshells, there's a chicken in the room". Having played with all the hardware I think the chicken is the cylinder head.
Probably a subject best discussed elsewhere. But if someone came to me and said "Cut through the crap. I have $200 dollars to spend. I can do my own work. What mod is most likely to yield the most benefit?" I'd now direct that person to a CONSERVATIVE cam change.
Not many have done it and most of the feedback is subjective, but it kinda stands to reason.
There's a saying that goes "If you're stepping on eggshells, there's a chicken in the room". Having played with all the hardware I think the chicken is the cylinder head.
Probably a subject best discussed elsewhere. But if someone came to me and said "Cut through the crap. I have $200 dollars to spend. I can do my own work. What mod is most likely to yield the most benefit?" I'd now direct that person to a CONSERVATIVE cam change.
Not many have done it and most of the feedback is subjective, but it kinda stands to reason.
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I don't think the head is the first culprit. First is the EPA carb tune. Until that is rectified, any changes will only make things worse.
2nd would be cam and springs.
3rd would be the head.
4th would be carb and airbox/filter.
5th would be exhaust.
6th would be bore and stroke.
TT-R 230s bored to 249cc have laid 28hp at the wheels. Such engines are intended for "spirited" riding as the powerbands are not at all friendly. For the investment one could just buy a WR250 instead and have a faster, better handling bike.
I'll agree that for $200 a cam and springs and rejetted carb are the most bang for the buck.
2nd would be cam and springs.
3rd would be the head.
4th would be carb and airbox/filter.
5th would be exhaust.
6th would be bore and stroke.
TT-R 230s bored to 249cc have laid 28hp at the wheels. Such engines are intended for "spirited" riding as the powerbands are not at all friendly. For the investment one could just buy a WR250 instead and have a faster, better handling bike.
I'll agree that for $200 a cam and springs and rejetted carb are the most bang for the buck.
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Also, tw bike to tw bike there are some differences. As a reference, I just sold one of my 87s and it performed better than my 96. With the 87, I tweaked and tweaked and tweaked till the cows came home and got it dialed in just the way I liked it. It could easily carry the front wheel with a flick of the wrist. Pulled really well thru 1-2-3 gears. So I set up the 96 the same but had differnt results. The 96 carb has been off 3 time(i make one change at a time) today and I am getting closer, will finish tommorrow.
I forgot to mention the easist way to get the best possible performance use real gas, no corn sqeez'ins
I forgot to mention the easist way to get the best possible performance use real gas, no corn sqeez'ins
I didn't question your humored idea of him buying a new bike as serious idea, just like I'm not telling him to spend the same % of money on his TW as the guy with the diesel. I guess after a few years of watching the forums it eventually wears you out when people tell the onroad guys that they're nuts for trying to make the bike work better on the road. I know we're working with only a 200cc bike here, but things can be done to improve it. Things that cost way less than a new bike or making a diesel run 11's, obviously.
And why does improving horsepower really require us to know whether the bike is used onroad or offroad? We always give the same response of go to the technical help folder and use the "Carb Tuning" guide as a baseline and fine tune from there. Altitude being the only real big factor for drifting from the old tried and true jetting specs in that guide. Then after that, it's what type of gearing is appropriate for the location the bike will be used. Gearing is about the only distinguisher between onroad and offroad TW's for the majority of the riders, ignoring tire and suspension options.
Personally, I truly don't believe the cam should be considered a major change or cost, but in others' eyes it probably is and that's understandable. My viewpoint comes from how many slip-ons have been purchased through the years by fellow TW'ers and what better improvements they could have gotten with the cam. But all it takes are a few guinea pigs and some solid evidence that it is in fact a good upgrade and then it'll build others' confidence to go for it. It's the same with tires, jetting spec's, chains, handguards, and all the other products out there.
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"And why does improving horsepower really require us to know whether the bike is used onroad or offroad? "
It does not. I only brought it up because he said he was gearing 15/47. (and I assumed he was street/hwy) IF he said he wanted to go off-roading and climb steep mountiansides I would have kindly told him the tw could not generate the torque/hp to turn those gears.
I do believe that motors can/should be tuned for application specifics. I was not inferring anything about on road use, just was trying to clairify the use of those gears.
Just trying to help and pass on some of my own experiences.
It does not. I only brought it up because he said he was gearing 15/47. (and I assumed he was street/hwy) IF he said he wanted to go off-roading and climb steep mountiansides I would have kindly told him the tw could not generate the torque/hp to turn those gears.
I do believe that motors can/should be tuned for application specifics. I was not inferring anything about on road use, just was trying to clairify the use of those gears.
Just trying to help and pass on some of my own experiences.
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Good advice, that. Tdub normally sees a 5-7mph loss of top end with E10. Occasionally more, but I think that stems from the delivery guy accidently dropping a double does of flame retardant.
The settings given in the carb tuning sticky are not gospel. They closely replicate the world-wide factory tune for North American models. They will be closer to ideal than the starvation diet that plagues the EPA mandated North American models.
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