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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Subject kind of say it all but I am thinking this can lead me to an aluminum spoke and wheel option in another yet to come iteration. This one will be all steel to clean up the design for the welded spoke setup I did a a couple of weeks ago. I think next I can adapt this design plan to building from all aluminum.

Here is the new plan..... Going to make the center tube then have dedicated rings properly located on the hub for receiving the spoke ends, the drum brake and sprocket. On the wheel end I am figuring on drilling the spoke holes on the drop center area along the raised edges and spread apart about 2" ish and fitting the spokes through these holes into the hub rings and flush welding on the inside of the wheel where the welds won't be seen. Then kind of plug welding the spokes in milled slots in the rings. !!!! This is gonna take some doing. I am newish to the mill and lathe both but learning fast.

P.S. should I build for 12" or 14" wheel. I done 14" for less sidewall flex for on the road manors thinking low air pressure could give that flex back in ample amounts for offroad. Let me hear from more experienced folks on this subject.

Edit: To include update pic's.

IMG_6518.JPG

 

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I'm no expert but I'd think more sidewall would better enable low air pressure, although the stock TW rear tires is quite adequate for low pressure. I've yet to see an ATV tire that's road legal.

If you're going to reinvent the wheel so to speak would now be the time to consider a disc brake or is there a reason TWs don't have them I'm unaware of?
 

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While I admire your creativity and ambition, I think that if you are going to machine a whole new hub that you would be better off making one that simply accepts standard trailer wheels and skip the permanent welding on of the wheel. Another member had a friend do this and I believe it was successful. A couple of advantages would be: easier to fabricate, likely able to mount either a 12" or 14" interchangeably, and if the wheel is damaged you can buy a new cheap trailer wheel and swap it out with out re welding. Just my opinion, but either way I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I see a lot o talk about the rear disc but I just have not found a need to drive the motivation. I can step on my rear and slide my tire. I am sure it would be stronger and with less input, that would be nice. I guess I am already working in too many directions to include it at this time. this project is pushing back my engine and 6 speed build already. I could see a design upgrade in the future. I am not sure TW peeps are big spenders and this wheel and swingarm with a new chain and tire is already unavoidably getting salty as far as mods go. The STI black Diamond tire is DOT. We know of one guy riding it back and fourth to work daily. I have not dug in but I bet there are others. This will have to be sold as an "off highway use only" item eitherway. I certainly will not be going through any certification processes.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
This find is going to make my job easier !!! Still asking 12" or 14" I am struggling to like the look of the 12" setup but also looking for sound reason to do it at the same time. Just talking about this rev. I can do either or both long term.

IMG_6517.JPG
 

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This find is going to make my job easier !!! Still asking 12" or 14" I am struggling to like the look of the 12" setup but also looking for sound reason to do it at the same time. Just talking about this rev. I can do either or both long term.

View attachment 175945
12" - Larger Tire size and brand to select from.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Got the main tube cut to length and counter bored on both ends for the bearings and seals today.

Next up is to try and learn more about my cad program to draw up the flanges to get to my cnc plasma table guy. This is gonna be a challenge for me.

 

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Doug one thought about brakes is and not needed for this mod yet is that bigger size ATV tires would need more braking power to stop with their increased traction and weight. Stock brake is pretty good. Some just use a longer brake arm to get more leverage.

12” or 14” one point is 12” there are more sizes available in sizes that fit stock swing arm. With modded swing arm I am not sure if more ATV sizes would then work for 14”. Maybe someone who knows will pipe in.

So rear wheel/ hub mod and modded swing arm is adding up, but crazy TW ers will probably flock to them.

If you are making a scratch hub it won’t hurt to investigate a disk brake mounting flange. Placerlode and others have researched this.

They are some disk brake threads with parts etc.

Edit: If you have read through the trailer wheel mod thread you would see talk of a one piece aluminum hub cnc machined for the trailer wheel. I posted pics of a custom one piece CNC machined aluminum motorcross hubs for @ $360. I think these could be made for the TW and I spoke with one company it would need around 10 k of sales to be feasible. 10k \. $360=28 hubs. So with a one piece hub and a $26 trailer wheel not a bad deal.

Keep at it I am enjoying the ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thanks, Good point about the rear brake getting more heavily used with bigger heavier tires, I can sense that riding this one I just built.

I am drawing the spoke ring for the hub this evening. Gonna draw the sprocket ring and the main tube that I built today next. There is nothing like a real project to help the learning curve on something like software. Once I have component drawings I can assemble on the screen with the wheel and stack all the dimensions to the components to optimize the spoke ring location. i can also easily quote out the parts so it all comes in ready to assemble. Some of these components could have as little as a 1-2 minute cycle time if being made on optimal equipment rather than hours by me in the shop. I am not good at cad but on a mission right now to learn what I need to know in Autodesk's Fusion 360 Cad Cam program.

Here is my evening.......thus far. I fiished by converting to a dimensined print and exporting a DXF cut file to my jump drive. making some headway.

ss hub spoke ring.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Had a sample part cut from my DXF file this morning but the plasma cutting had it .02 to .03 narrow on the spoke slots and the I.D. Plasma is just too crud to use for stuff like this in my opinion.

IMG_6527.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When you are all done is it going to end up looking something like these? I think a heavy spoke wheel would look good on the TW. View attachment 176442
Very Close, Yes !! I wonder if those wheels in your picture were fronts only or if the design was acceptable for drive torque wheels as well.

I have about got my mind wrapped around this cad program and all the components drawn in 3d. Going to try to maybe get my components cut by late next week and order in a new rim blank to make Rev. 2. machining is fun but using optimized machines just makes more sense. kind of enlightening to watch a guy cut out that spoke ring in 20 seconds. -vs- me making it on the lathe and mill in 2 hours.
Spent several hours today learning to use some more features on Fusion 360 from Autodesk. This was a great follow along tutorial so I could draw what I was seeing the instructor draw at the same time. Thankful for dual monitors.

AUTODESK SS ROTATE FOR TWF.JPG
 

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Impressive and ambitious project Doug regardless of the technology and craftsmanship employed.


Those American Racing wheels came up when looking for 12 " spoke rim options, however are 15" I think.


American Racing made magnesium twelve-spoked spindle-mount front wheels in 15 by 3 1/2, 17 by 2 1/2, and 18 by 2 1/2-inch sizes, for Altereds with Anglia or early Ford spindles.

By the time the altered-wheelbase A/FX (Factory Experimental) drag cars of the mid-Sixties evolved into full-blown Funny Cars in the late Sixties, American was also producing a magnesium spindle-mount version of their classic five-spoked wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I could have retired at 50 if not for Drag Racing, worse than any drug :) Still would not trade it back the other way. Always loved working with my hands. Thus I am still having to work some to keep from loosing ground until some long term investments materialize. Biggest horsepower was at 1500 hp turbo and blower small block Fords in fox mustangs on 10.5" tires. Most fun was 1130 hp all motor on an 8.5" tire. I miss it but had to grow up and start adulting at 45 :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I have joined some CNC Milling machine and home machine shop groups and have found a few people willing to quote my 3-4 parts from my provided data so that they would be machined in a cnc mill instead plasma cut parts. Should make for more of a production environment and nicer finished product. Got one of the centerless rim blanks ordered to build rev 2 as well, the absence of powder coating and a center needing to be cut out of it costs more but not too much more and is worth it. Side benefit is I can take made up assemblies to the powder coater 20 miles away if and when I get to that point. Please advise if picture below is not visible.

 

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Discussion Starter #16
I have found a cnc milled parts supplier and things should start moving a little faster now. :):):)
 

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Impressive and ambitious project Doug regardless of the technology and craftsmanship employed.


Those American Racing wheels came up when looking for 12 " spoke rim options, however are 15" I think.


American Racing made magnesium twelve-spoked spindle-mount front wheels in 15 by 3 1/2, 17 by 2 1/2, and 18 by 2 1/2-inch sizes, for Altereds with Anglia or early Ford spindles.

By the time the altered-wheelbase A/FX (Factory Experimental) drag cars of the mid-Sixties evolved into full-blown Funny Cars in the late Sixties, American was also producing a magnesium spindle-mount version of their classic five-spoked wheel.
fred i think our difference in generation is showing... when you spoke of magnesium mag wheels... i didn't think of anglias (though i have a friend who has one) but of motomags, the classic mongoose wheels from the 70's.
;)

View attachment 176850 View attachment 176858
though personally i preferred the black tuff II rims.

dougdoty,
your project and rive is admirable, i'm excited to see what you crank out.
fred,
those american racing would look bad ass on a tdub.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Despite me not giving any updates, I have been making good progress. Making one of something for yourself is quite easy and a lot different from designing, building,and testing something worthy of selling to others, even in low volume. Believe me !! I realize this is all low volume and mostly for fun but it is an enjoyable experience and once up and going I plan to just keep the things I develop and make for the TW's in stock and replenish as needed and to always have them available when someone wants one.

Those pics from my cad program all turned into a full set of test samples today !! while visiting the new cnc milled parts supplier. Great fella with a home shop, he has a Tormach 1100 cnc mill and a cnc plasma table next to it so pretty versatile. Cycle times did not go as he had planned but we have some good experience to draw from now and a new strategy to get there with a couple more rounds like today. With the input from some of the guys and a gal !! here I will be building this next unit with a 12x5 wheel which also came in today and plan to test it in about a week to 10 days on my other bike with the 8" wide tire, my new custom hub and spoke layout design all coming together so I get some experience with that setup which does not require the extended swingarm for those that would rather go that route. That is about it for updates on the wheel deal...

As far as other things I am working on, I have determined via lots of measuring..... the mods to the toolpost grinder I bought to grind the snap ring groove in the 6 speed shafts will be a minor deal when I get back to it but seeing this hub/atv tire and wheel project to the final stretch is going to have to take priority for now and until it is done and in production. Going in too many directions at once makes me not get anything finished so had to re-focus. I will assemble paint and install the Rev.2 setup after the coming long weekend.

On the other new stuff, this new relationship with the cnc operator is going to allow me to get moving on the swingarm extension brackets now that I have learned to run my cad software and I can do away with napkin drawings and move into cad models and then have the parts made. I will be adding the drum brake anti rotation lug and the peg for the snail adjusters after they come from the mill work. I tried making these parts on my manual mill and the time it took just did not make sense. I also outsourced them in cnc plasma cut and despite trying, the quality was not something I could live width and those went to recycling :(

The one other new development in my work to have a few TW200 products to market is that once again with the ability now to modify and build my own hub designs I will be able to offer and sell a ready to go trailer wheel hub for those that want that option. Not sure on how to handle the wheel part but thinking through a buyer, template assisted DIY option, but in the end, it may be easier and/or sufficiently preferential to double ship the wheel and just do it here.

Taking both TW's with us camping and riding all weekend, can't wait. All for now , later...
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Here is the latest. I have been busy in the shop with actual paying jobs so been a bit slow on the hub even though the parts are laying here waiting. I have everything in now to make up my V2 which I hope will as well pass the torture test of clutch dumps and have a finished appearance that is acceptable for selling to others. I am in the process of designing a good clamping fixture for accurately placing and welding the rings to the main tube. Since both ends get a facing operation it is not a .001" critical operation but best effort is still best practice. Thinking I will have deep throated "V" blocks rise up well beyond the middle of the tube to give ample clamping and squaring surface beyond what i have mocked up. Here is the cnc machined hub components layed up in a temporary setup to figure out just how to make the above mentioned clamping fixture. More to come soon. Only cad data change since these parts was to add additional radi. to the lightening scallops on the sprocket hub. This version will be a bit different from the first one I built by having (16) 3/8" straight spokes. The spoke rings in the picture will get flipped around to put the spokes all in tension rather than compression as well. I welcome and comments or suggestions about where I am headed with this design. I am not an engineer so have to remain open minded on this design.

 
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