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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
They do, but it's based off of the banshee shock dimensions, so while there's a little more travel, the seat will sit about 1-1.5" higher.

I guess another forum member tried to work with Tim to get a 1-for-1 stock length shock, but the measurements given didn't make any sense, so someone just needs to put in the leg work to figure out where a 13" eye to eye shock needs to be hydrolocked so it doesn't scrape the seat pan.

Other forum members correct me if I'm wrong on the stock shock length (I think it's 13").
 

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Be interested to see it's long term durability. OEM looks beefy compared to this. It sure doesn't look durable, but hopefully it just looks that way, but performs and endures off-road abuse.
 
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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Be interested to see it's long term durability. OEM looks beefy compared to this. It sure doesn't look durable, but hopefully it just looks that way, but performs and endures off-road abuse.
Its been through two riding seasons with multiple trips on FSRs and single track in Wenatchee NF, Gifford Pinchot, and Capitol forest (finally hit some of the single tracks around rock candy mtn) with a 400lb rider.

I'm not saying it likes it, but it handles it like a boss, way better than the TW slam hammer shock.

Edit: removed the last part of this, don't want to sound like I'm trying to push MSS products on here, just really happy with their shocks.
 

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Blake, I would be interested in your comments. You put a lot of time into making this shock happen, so I would think your opinions are very relevant. If the shock is working out that well for you over time, then you should push MSS products!

I guess another forum member tried to work with Tim to get a 1-for-1 stock length shock, but the measurements given didn't make any sense, so someone just needs to put in the leg work to figure out where a 13" eye to eye shock needs to be hydrolocked so it doesn't scrape the seat pan.
Well, I might be the guy! I'm very short, and I have a Seat Concepts cover on the way. Any more additional ride height simply cannot be allowed. I'll look into this further...
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Well, I might be the guy! I'm very short, and I have a Seat Concepts cover on the way. Any more additional ride height simply cannot be allowed. I'll look into this further...
As long as you're ok with the height of the OEM shock with the seat concepts seat (such a nice seat upgrade), I think it would be as simple as having MSS make a 13" version (call it the OEM replacement) shock, then just do what I did, I used dry erase marker on the shock (just colored in a big fat line on one side) sat on the bike and had my friend watch until we were about 1-1.5" from the tire touching the seat pan. Noted how much of the dry erase marker disappeared and right where the line picked up I used a thin strip of painters tape to mark the line where the shocks stroke needed to stop.

Also made pressure reccomendations (obviously needed a little more for me) to limit sending the shock back and forth. Sent that sucker back with the hydrolock location marked with tape and asked for more pressure, in a couple working days, got it back and it was dialed except for some pressure adjustments.

That should be about the bulk of it.
 

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Its been through two riding seasons with multiple trips on FSRs and single track in Wenatchee NF, Gifford Pinchot, and Capitol forest (finally hit some of the single tracks around rock candy mtn) with a 400lb rider.

I'm not saying it likes it, but it handles it like a boss, way better than the TW slam hammer shock.

Edit: removed the last part of this, don't want to sound like I'm trying to push MSS products on here, just really happy with their shocks.
Great to hear! BigBlake.....appreciate the positive feedback!
 
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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Removed the first marvin Shaw shock I purchased so I can test the second one for pressure and travel (making sure the new one has the same hydrolock location as the first). Here are some pictures of the inspection for wear.

FYI, yes they are the same size, I just noticed the angle of the picture makes the new one look longer lol.

First shock is on the right:

212399



Eyes and spacers don't show any signs of warping or deformation.

212400


212401


Upper and lower mounting bolts look good too, no bending, deformation, or excessive marring.

212402


I'll report back on fit and pressure on shock number 2.
 

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Removed the first marvin Shaw shock I purchased so I can test the second one for pressure and travel (making sure the new one has the same hydrolock location as the first). Here are some pictures of the inspection for wear.

FYI, yes they are the same size, I just noticed the angle of the picture makes the new one look longer lol.

First shock is on the right:

View attachment 212399


Eyes and spacers don't show any signs of warping or deformation.

View attachment 212400

View attachment 212401

Upper and lower mounting bolts look good too, no bending, deformation, or excessive marring.

View attachment 212402

I'll report back on fit and pressure on shock number 2.
Blake your efforts are appreciated as always
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Second (new) shock is pretty soft, called and left a message for MSS. Nitrogen pressure is at 200psi like the first one. Gonna get this sorted, I'm sure for a lighter rider this is fine... gotta figure out what changed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Ok, this should be one of the last updates on this thread/adventure.

Spoke with Tim at MSS, after sending both my original and the new MSS shock in.

They dissected the original, captured the hydrolock distance on the shaft, oil level and nitro pressure. The new shock did not appear to have the correct hydrolock distance, but enough to avoid the tire striking the seat pan, which I imagine thats what Mr PierreDilecto was experiencing when he attempted to purchase one.

They have documented and applied the same build stats to the new shock (and got a free rebuild on my old shock basically lol).

As soon as I get them back I'll test and make sure it all feels right, so if anyone else does decide to go the MSS route for an aftermarket shock, you don't have to worry about any back and forth, just let out nitro pressure from the schrader valve until it feels right for your weight.

Will do one final post when I get the shocks back and test them on my bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Great thread on your MSS upgrade and making them available. What have you done to your forks?
Thanks Ken.

I did the procycle .70kg springs and race tech emulators. Had a friend drill out the dampening rods.

The next set for the new build, I'll do the same procycle kit with emulators and I'll drill the rods out myself.
 

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Watching closely. I rarely bottom out the stock rear shock with the preload on max but when I do the rebound smacks me and threatens to throw me over the bars. How much rebound adjustability is in the MSS?
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Watching closely. I rarely bottom out the stock rear shock with the preload on max but when I do the rebound smacks me and threatens to throw me over the bars. How much rebound adjustability is in the MSS?
I'm thinking it's just gonna be spring rate or revalving as there are no adjustments you can make outside of the nitrogen pressure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 · (Edited)
Just got both my shocks back and just finished the test run on some Tacoma roads and a short stretch of gravel backroads... new shock is dialed. You featherweights will need to adjust nitro pressure for sure (was even a little stiff for my burly self), but felt good to have the MSS shock back over stock.

I think for now (barring any future mishaps on the trails and FS roads) testing over the last year of the original shock proved it can handle the weight of a Buffalo riding the TW over varied unpleasant terrain, new shocks specs have been documented by Tim at Marvin Shaw for accuracy going forward. I've heard they will be updating their site soon to add the TW to their list of shock products.

Here's a picture of the schrader valve clearance under the seat:
213250


Marvin Shaw shock is now ready for TW prime time.
 

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Marvin Shaw shock is now ready for TW prime time.
Nice work! Great to see such a productive collaboration between a rider & vendor. It sounds like you helped in great part
to get the TW community to a plug ‘n play rear suspension solution. Very cool.

THAT, as they say... is how it’s DONE.

Somebody get this man a beer!

Only Suggestion:

Looking @ the photo of the Schrader valve gets me wondering if it wouldn’t be possible to replace that straight valve fitting in the shock body with a 90deg fitting & a hose extension with a Schrader valve that could be zip-tied to the frame somewhere that it could be accessible without removing the seat for pressure checks/adjustments. It could be a SS braid, or whatever rated hose req’d, to handle big compression PSI hits on the shock.

This would be a big + for folks who change terrain types mid-ride, swap between single rider & 2-up, or with varied amounts of cargo, etc. Cost-benefit for that mod would be yuge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Nice work! Great to see such a productive collaboration between a rider & vendor. It sounds like you helped in great part
to get the TW community to a plug ‘n play rear suspension solution. Very cool.

THAT, as they say... is how it’s DONE.

Somebody get this man a beer!

Only Suggestion:

Looking @ the photo of the Schrader valve gets me wondering if it wouldn’t be possible to replace that straight valve fitting in the shock body with a 90deg fitting & a hose extension with a Schrader valve that could be zip-tied to the frame somewhere that it could be accessible without removing the seat for pressure checks/adjustments. It could be a SS braid, or whatever rated hose req’d, to handle big compression PSI hits on the shock.

This would be a big + for folks who change terrain types mid-ride, swap between single rider & 2-up, or with varied amounts of cargo, etc. Cost-benefit for that mod would be yuge.
Thats an excellent point, I'll check clearances mounting the shock in with valve down, might be a better configuration for folks wanting remote pressure adjustment (fill or release). I still have to swap back to the original MSS shock, I think with the right fittings and air line it would be possible.

I'll report back after the next swap this weekend.
 

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Looking @ the photo of the Schrader valve gets me wondering if it wouldn’t be possible to replace that straight valve fitting in the shock body with a 90deg fitting & a hose extension with a Schrader valve that could be zip-tied to the frame somewhere that it could be accessible without removing the seat for pressure checks/adjustments. It could be a SS braid, or whatever rated hose req’d, to handle big compression PSI hits on the shock.

This would be a big + for folks who change terrain types mid-ride, swap between single rider & 2-up, or with varied amounts of cargo, etc. Cost-benefit for that mod would be yuge.
It takes some pretty specialized equipment just to check nitrogen filled shock pressure, let alone fill one. We are talking some pretty high pressures; about 1 pound of pressure for every pound of rider. When I set my KX250 rear shock, I'd adjust it for my weight at that time, 145 pounds. We are also talking about some pretty small volumes. Even a tiny touch of the Schrader valve will loose 50 pounds in nothing flat. Here's a short video how it's done;
 
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It takes some pretty specialized equipment just to check nitrogen filled shock pressure, let alone fill one. We are talking some pretty high pressures; about 1 pound of pressure for every pound of rider. When I set my KX250 rear shock, I'd adjust it for my weight at that time, 145 pounds. We are also talking about some pretty small volumes. Even a tiny touch of the Schrader valve will loose 50 pounds in nothing flat. Here's a short video how it's done;
Ahhh, brain fart - forgot it’s nitrogen charged, not air.

Hardly seems unattainable though, if one really wanted this level of adjustability. As a starting point:

213258


Lossless valve addresses the adjustment psi sensitivity issue. Shock bodies should only ever be psi adjusted using a lossless valve, due to the low volume/high psi condition you mentioned.

It would be foolish to suggest anyone could accurately or precisely dial down psi on a shock by manually tapping the Schrader valve, like making a tire adjustment. Never gonna happen.

Coming up with a portable enough nitro bottle & mini-regulator while keeping overall cost in “TW” range - that, though, may be another kettle of fish.

Maybe it’s not worth the hassle or expense, except for the truly committed, or those who should truly be committed(?)

Until someone comes up with a portable trail-side nitrogen shock recharge kit that doesn’t break the bank, dreaming is free.

Dial it in & forget it, I suppose. It is a TW, not a Dakar bike, after all.

That shock alone, sounds like a monster upgrade for those who want/need it.
 
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