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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Remember when you expected good service and were surprised when you got lousy service?
Why is it that now we expect and ACCEPT lousy service and are surprised the odd time we get good service?

With everybody crying hard times, you'd think when someone asks, "Can you please sell me item XXXXX...I'm standing here, with a fistful of cash...pleaseeee?"

I, for one, am sick and tired of getting served by people that couldn't give a sh** one way or the other....and I'm not talking about some kid slinging burgers or something.

So, in my quest to buy a TW200 and insure it, so far this has been my experiences:

Dealership 4-hours away with 3 new 2015's in stock, posting on Kijiji (same as Craigslist). I reply to the ad, give cell and email, say I'm looking to buy a TW200 in the next couple weeks. 6 days, no reply.
Same dealership, go to their website, "Contact us"..click the link, send them an email about one of the 3 TW200's on their site, ready to buy in the next couple weeks, this would be a cash sale....4 days, no reply.
Just called the dealership in my city, "Hi there, looking at getting a TW200, this would be my first bike (etc etc), do you guys have any in stock?" "no." "...okay, nothing used, leftover either?" "No." "...okay then....have a good day" "Bye."

Okay, could I pick up the phone and call? Of course. I did. Pick 1, pick 4, here's our hours, here's a long boring story, pick 3 for sales, ring ring, nobody can take your call, leave a message. And has anyone called back? Nope.

Emailed my insurance agent, been with them over 30 years. Said what bike I wanted to get, asked if I could get a price on insurance. 6 days, nothing. I call to remove the insurance on the ATV that I just sold, reception says she's busy, send her an email. I did, but never got an answer. She's in the office but with someone, just send the request by email and she'll look after it right away. I did. 3 days later, no confirmation on the removal, no info on the bike insurance.



So.....in none of these examples did I give them impression that it was going to be hard to sell me anything...that any hard WORK would be involved. "I want to buy a product that you sell, please take my money!"
Twice I told the dealer that this would be a cash sale, and that I wanted a TW200. Get out your pen and write it up. You sell bikes, you sell insurance...I would like to buy one of each, please take my money. Naw...couldn't be bothered.

You call a dealership saying you're looking for a TW200, first bike, etc....what salesman (except one who is tired of making money) would not take 10 seconds and give his name, "Come down and see me, I'll show you a few options...we have a couple XT250's here...come in and sit on one, they're only a couple hundred more than a TW...you might find that a little taller bike fits you just fine and we'll make the price work." Like really...what commissioned sales guy talks to a cash-wielding customer, says 3 words, and acts like he's bothering him?


Yes, I'm being stubborn. It's the principle. Consumers should not have to crawl on their hands and knees and jump through hoops to buy something.
I worked in a TV/Stereo store for a bit after high-school. I drove the van, delivered stuff, set up TVs in people's homes. I remember the salesmen would greet customer, smile, even if they were having a crap day, that was their job, and their bread and butter. I answered the phone there one day, and it was the owner. He actually said I didn't sound excited enough..."I'm going to call back, you answer with the store name like you just did, but pretend you just saw your first boobs when you say it." Good on him. First impression, "Holy, am I ever happy you called us!". Impression when local Yamaha dealer salesman answered the phone? "hurfle murfle mraf draf..." I wouldn't have known what dealership I called unless I hadn't looked up the number myself, and I have no clue what his name was.


Okay....I'm rippin' right now, but I realize I'm not going to change the world...but it feels good to rant. I bet you if everybody felt the same way and we all stood up and spoke with our wallets, things would turn around quick.


Don't even get me started on how we just sit back and let more and more small fees be added and we just pay them like sheep. Buy a $10,000 ATV..."What's that administration fee?" "Well, you come in, lay out TEN GRAND, and we charge you $100 to take your money and fill in a few forms. " "Makes perfect sense...."

It should be "Thank you for choosing to spend your money here, we really appreciate it, and we'll try our best to make it a great experience for you so you'll want to spend more money here the next time."
I call and essentially say, "I'd like to come over and give you $5000 in cash, for an item that's been hanging around your inventory for around a year and a half..." and I pretty much get a sigh, and a "Ugh, do I have toooo?....maybe if I just ignore him he'll go spend his money somewhere else..."

Okay, now I'm really done. Promise!!
 

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I feel your pain, it seems to get harder and harder to find decent MC dealers. It is easier for me to buy parts online than it is to go to the local dealer. If I could buy new, name brand motorcycles online and delivered to my door, it wouldn't bother me in the least.
 

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I feel your pain and went through the same hassle when I bought my '09 TW. Call a dealer 5 hours south of here. "Yup, I've got a 2010 I will sell you at last years price"....good, when can I pick it up? Headed down on the following weekend and there was no bike when I got there, said it was held up in customs. Headed back north to the next dealer and they had a 2009 on the floor, salesman agreed to the discounted price the other dealers were listing their bikes at and all was done....NOT! The owner came and started to say that bike was no good for me and wouldn't do what I wanted to and he wouldn't sell it to me cause he didn't want an unhappy customer. Wanted me to by a 250 Kawasaki for another $2K....so it was bye bye. Call up to the next dealer an hour farther up the road and they too had a 2009 on the clearance price, so off we went again. Drove and said we would take it but wanted it by closing. Wrote them a check, went for a late lunch and returned for the bike. The said they had the PDI done so we loaded it into the truck and headed home. Next day I got the plate on it and went to go for a ride.... bolts loose, chain loose, clutch spring off, no fuel??? So I hear you loud and clear, shouldn't have to be this hard to spend your hard earned cash on something they are in the business of selling. I think the mark-up is low on a bike of this size, but hey... a sale is a sale. I have been very happy with my bike and don't regret the purchase one bit and the bike "does" do what I want it too and it does it very well. Not only did that dealer loose the sale of a TW, he also lost any future business from me and everyone else I could talk out of buying their bikes there as well.

I hope you find a dealer thats willing to sell you what you want and trust me it is worth getting one because this bike makes me smile every time I ride it.:D
 

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Somewhat similar. Went to buy a 82' CM450 off Craiglist last weekend. Call the guy, tell him I'm on my way (1 hour away) with cash in hand to check the bike, he says "OK, i'll be here". Get to the place, no one there. Call the sellers phone, no answer. 30 minutes goes by and he finally calls me back, says he went into town to get groceries. I reply, "we are all busy people, I understand, but you really should have told me you were not going to be there. I have wasted an hour and a half at this point and I also have things to do." He replies with "do you want the fucking bike or what?" Astonished at this guys behavior I simply say "no", and hang up. The next 15 minutes this guy (in his 60's) is texting my phone every 5 seconds with some hateful comment or another. It all worked out for the best however. Next day a 75' CB360 popped up on Craigslist, a bike I have been wanting to add to my garage. The CB is in my shop now, and it wouldn't be if things hadn't worked out as they did.
 

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Look up towards the sky. Is there a small black rain cloud over your head? If so maybe you are a descendant of Joe Ptzptzptz from the Li'l Abner cartoon strip.
He always had that cloud over his head even though people around him were in the sunshine. Had terrible luck too.

BTW his name was pronounced by putting the tongue between the lips and blowing .
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Well, it's nice to see I'm not the only one getting jerked around. I'm not in sales, but I've had a LOT of customer-facing jobs, and the guy buying a $4200 bike today might be the guy looking for a $20,000 bike a year from now and become a great customer for life.

I have a sneaking feeling that the smaller dealers would be more apt to treat you like a person; with a small customer base, each customer counts for more than one customer at a 'bike superstore'. Trouble is, they don't have the power of volume and likely can't afford to carry the overhead that makes for good clear-out deals when the new models are on the horizon.

I have no doubt that I want a TW200 as a starter bike, I just have to find the right place to buy it. And, finding out that insurance with be $1500/yr is making a low-mile used TW look better and better. Worth noting that I'm 47, clean driving record, no accidents, no tickets. Here we have a graduated system so you get a restricted license after the eye test, written test, and $515 safety course. Then if you pass the course you can ride sunrise to sunset, no passenger, no trailer, 0 BAL, etc... After 12 months of that, you can then go do your provincial road test, THEN get your full license. Assuming you can still afford the bike, paying $1500/yr just for liability and fire/theft.
The funny thing is, I wanted to get a TW now, get my feet under me, ride it around the camp and on the trails there, put it up for the winter, ride the same in the spring, then take the course in May/June (only time it's offered). Insurance for off-road use only is the same price for me as it would be for a 20-yearold with a crotch-rocket and his graduated license on the road. What the hell???

Then I think about the half dozen friends and co-workers right around my age (healthy, fit people) having strokes and fighting cancer. Whatever....pay the money, get the bike, live. ...For tomorrow we may die, as they say.
 

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Just think, the adversity many of us go through to acquire our TWs just makes them that much more precious. Consider it an initiation right into a secret club. Note: I have my own bait and switch TW sob stories too, must mean I can join the club too.
 

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That sucks, vehicle buying can be often be a miserable quest.

My last 4 vehicles ( including 2 bike ) purchases have been 110% enjoyable. All done via email, phone and wire transfer. I'm scared to buy another as I know my luck is due to turn. I found my last TW and my XR via cycle trader. Inquired about 5 places and got 5 responses. Most had the price listed and then an extra 1200 or so for "fees". the TW dealer I choose had a price, and when called that was the price. I said that's out the door? "Yup" I said send me a buyers order via email and where to wire funds. Got the email in 30 minutes. I Said can I pick it up in 4 weeks as I'm 8 hours away, yes sir. 2 hours later they had the funds. I arrived and the bike was ready to go. 20 minutes later it was loaded and I was on my way.
Shoutout to Crossroads Yamaha /Suzuki In Albemarle NC, husband and wife owners on site.
My XR purchase from another dealer was just as easy. Inquired, they called me within an hour. Agreed on price, Wired money, picked up a week later.
Insurance. Super easy on both. Less than 5 minutes in the agents office with the buyers orders before ever getting the bikes.

Now the reason why it's difficult at dealers.

1. The dealer pays floor space for any units on the floor after 30-60 days from assembly. They don't want to assemble anything not sold Or not a quick seller. The trick to having units on the floor is a mad rush the day after the vin number checker guy comes by as that gives you a few weeks of floor time without paying space.
2. The dealers don't pay for still created bikes out back. They float on the dealer acct.
3. Dealers are required to take x number of motorcycles to get Atvs and S x S's. they often want cheap motorcycles to fill that requirement. But they have to take some high dollar like Goldwings too.
4. Cash deals suck for the dealer. Most of their profit on units is from financing and dealer addons not the unit sale.
5. Cash deals don't pay much commission to the sales person, they are really not worth his time. A cash sale TW might put 40.00 in the sales persons pocket. An ATV with a wheel package and some racks financed is 500.00 in the pocket, a side x side lots more.
6. Small family owned - Principal person on site dealers are the better option for a good price / nice experience.

The "professional assembly guy" is a guy getting minimum wage and is not a tech or mechanic. He works part time in the parts dept, but screws up orders and parts pulls. So they have him assemble units between taking out the trash and mopping the floors. He has a box of mismatched tools with his main tool an adjustable wrench. Once in a while he starts a unit with no oil then realizes his mistake a few seconds later. Your bike or ATV probably got dropped off the forklift, but they package them pretty well.

I worked for a few years as the SM for a large dealership after I retired. We had a back lot full of crated PW 50's that nobody would even consider selling. Dirt bikes and dual sports were always "not available" even though the dealer advertised them in cycletrader. The dealership owner didn't want them sold to keep up his MC inventory to be able to get ATVs and side x sides. We sold 6-10 AtVs a day and 4-10 street bikes a week. When the place became overrun with Dirt bikes and DS, a bunch were assembled and taken to motorcycle auction or sold out of county. Nobody purchased dirt bikes / DS around the area. I think we sold 2 wr250's the whole time I was there. Atvs is where the money is and being able to get that inventory allotment is key.


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Quote
Well, it's nice to see I'm not the only one h be $1500/yr is making a low-mile used TW look better and better. Worth noting that I'm 47, clean driving record, no accidents, no tickets. Here we have a graduated system so you get a restricted license after the eye test, written test, and $515 safety course. Then if you pass the course you can ride sunrise to sunset, no passenger, no trailer, 0 BAL, etc... After 12 months of that, you can then go do your provincial road test, THEN get your full license. Assuming you can still afford the bike, paying $1500/yr just for liability and fire/theft.


Good grief, 1500/yr. My TW is 144.00/yr and that's with a 300.00 deductible full coverage with a million liability.




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Fishguy, I'm starting to feel that poor service and rotten attitudes is the standard in Canada. my last bike purchase was painful. the Yamaha dealer closest to us never has time or anything but KTM on the floor. the next closest was pissed that I phoned and bothered him. the third try and farthest away was great. they didn't have a bike in stock, but were willing to bring one in, which they did with a smile. when that bike didn't work out ( killed my back ) they gave me just about what I paid for it on a trade ( with another smile ) so one out of three is enough to keep me going. 33% is pretty low on the customer service scale though
 

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Discussion Starter #15
What state has that greedy a DMV?
Assuming you mean me, it would be province, not state. :)

The DMV isn't actually the greedy ones (well, yes and no)....they collect the sales tax and do the registration and plating. The $515 for the mandatory course (offered by a couple private driver training companies) goes to the private company and the gov't (apparently) doesn't see a dime of it. The insurance company then collect my $1500 ($700 for liability, another $800 for fire and theft)..collision would be another gob of money if I wanted that.

Most young drivers around here pay more for insurance than the value of the car they were able to afford.

My neighbour drives long-haul tractor trailer. Was presented his million-mile jacket (1,000,000 accident free miles). Shortly after, he and his wife decided to buy a used minivan, and he had never had a car because he had no need of one. He was told he was classified as a new driver, and would be paying the same insurance rate as a 16-yearold kid who had just got his learners permit...

It's no fun at all..... I had the bare minimum "just legal to be on the road" coverage on an old clapped-out Suzuki Samurai...I moved to another province and bought a brand new car and full FULL coverage on a brand new vehicle in that province was still well under the price I was paying a couple provinces over for the bare minimum on a clapped-out old beater.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Fishguy, I'm starting to feel that poor service and rotten attitudes is the standard in Canada. my last bike purchase was painful.
It's unfortunate for sure. I joke and I say I'm going to become a roofer, contractor, bike dealer (the list goes on)...because they all seem to have an abundance of customers and money and don't seem to feel the need to answer calls, return calls, or even show up when they've committed to. grewen, at least you have ICBC and it's regulated to some extent. The province where the insurance on the new car was so cheap (comparatively..) that was in BC. In un-regulated provinces, it seems like they all get together over a beer and make sure they all have their stories straight, then they ALL jack their rates. As long as they ALL do it, we have NO choice but to pay it.

And again...that $1500 is for using the bike OFF road. I am not licensed, and won't be until May/June. Because it's classed as a dual purpose, I have to pay the same rates to drive it on trails as I would if I was newly licensed and was driving it on the road.
And you buy a bike and go to DMV to register/transfer, and you cannot unless you provide proof of insurance. So in order to provide that, to register the bike (regardless of the planned use), I have to spend $700 for liability insurance. As said, it's another $800 for theft/fire coverage on top of that. I live on the edge of a not-so-great neighbourhood, so it could very well walk out of my shed the first night I own it, so what's a guy to do....
AND, they have it arranged so fire/theft can only be stacked on top of liability. And, if I opt for no insurance and take my chances with theft, I'm not covered under my homeowner policy because it's a vehicle and has to carry its own policy.

Makes a guy want to just get dropped off in the wilderness and build a cabin.
 

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Gosh, with only 753,914 residents New Brunswick sure makes driving an absolute hassle. Just the many months/years to progress through 7 levels of licensing seems enough to make a person take up boating instead.
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Oh yeah, this subject touches a nerve for me!! :mad: So, let's say you're dealer John Doe selling X-Brand motorsport products. Someone comes in to buy a lower end bike. Yeah sure, John Doe has over-head, DF mechanics that he would fire if he could, and a litany of other problems like child support for 6.5 kids from two ex-wives, & a pregnant girlfriend, possible intestinal parasites.. (I think you get the idea.)

IF John Doe & his employees give less than stellar customer service, then don't give them your $$, & let them know why! This also applies to any biz, store, etc. John Doe is also STUPID as there are so many benefits that come with good sales & service, like word of mouth advertising, which happens to be the very best kind. And how about repeat sales because that purchaser was happy with the way things went? & he sent in his rich brother-in-law who bought matching $18k Badassombitchies that really went a long way to pay the lawyer fees for John Does last divorce??? :nightmare: :BangHead:

OK, ok, I'm done... (gasp) m.
 

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Maybe they want you to "make" them try to sell you the bike. Like go into the store, look around, tell them I'm just looking, Act like you don't want anything they have to offer, tell them their prices are way too high, etc. Kinda like if you offer something to someone free and they don't want it, but if you ask 50 bucks for it, they are all over offering you 35. lol
 

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It's unfortunate for sure. I joke and I say I'm going to become a roofer, contractor, bike dealer (the list goes on)...because they all seem to have an abundance of customers and money and don't seem to feel the need to answer calls, return calls, or even show up when they've committed to. grewen, at least you have ICBC and it's regulated to some extent. The province where the insurance on the new car was so cheap (comparatively..) that was in BC. In un-regulated provinces, it seems like they all get together over a beer and make sure they all have their stories straight, then they ALL jack their rates. As long as they ALL do it, we have NO choice but to pay it.

And again...that $1500 is for using the bike OFF road. I am not licensed, and won't be until May/June. Because it's classed as a dual purpose, I have to pay the same rates to drive it on trails as I would if I was newly licensed and was driving it on the road.
And you buy a bike and go to DMV to register/transfer, and you cannot unless you provide proof of insurance. So in order to provide that, to register the bike (regardless of the planned use), I have to spend $700 for liability insurance. As said, it's another $800 for theft/fire coverage on top of that. I live on the edge of a not-so-great neighbourhood, so it could very well walk out of my shed the first night I own it, so what's a guy to do....
AND, they have it arranged so fire/theft can only be stacked on top of liability. And, if I opt for no insurance and take my chances with theft, I'm not covered under my homeowner policy because it's a vehicle and has to carry its own policy.

Makes a guy want to just get dropped off in the wilderness and build a cabin.
Oofta. I shan't beach about my circumstances. They, whoever they is, really stick it to you in more ways than one. fpalm.gif
 
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