My local station just started selling 91 octane non ethanol. I had to fiddle a lot with the carb after they switched to ethanol 87 last year. Anyone have any ideas on which will run better? Going to top it off with the non today and see how she runs. Got a long wot run lets see if I notice a difference.
non ethanol
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Non-ethanol is better in the long run. In cold weather, high octane E0 may cause a loss of power, but not nearly so much as ethanol contamination. It might also cause a slight hesitation when rolling the throttle back on after engine braking at high speed, say, tooling along at 60, rolling the throttle closed to slow to 50, then whacking the throttle open again. Both issues result from the condensation of fuel vapor from compression in the lower part of the combustion chamber. Neither condition is harmful to the engine, and the 15-20% more power and better efficiency the engine provides under every other operating condition along with superior resistance to pre-ignition way more than compensates.
If your TW pings with 87 (R+M)/2 E0, either your carb is to lean, your rpms are too low, or your engine is too hot.
If your TW pings with 87 (R+M)/2 E0, either your carb is to lean, your rpms are too low, or your engine is too hot.
Have run about 3 tanks of non-ethanol gas now and noticed that I need very little or no choke to start the engine when cold. Don't know for sure that the non-ethanol made that happen but it has happened. Maybe its the heat of summer making it easier to start. Got TeeDub last December so I guess thats possible too.
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Its remarkably difficult to find Non-Ethanol here in my part of Oklahoma. So that could explain my hesitant performance when just running plain 87 ethanol fuel. BUT I put any kind of fuel additive in it (such as Lucas) and it clears right up and runs like a champ. Now I know.
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Seth, your fuel additive is probably--wait for it--ethanol or methanol. Better check the MSDS online and find out with what you are poisoning your TW.
Per unit of volume, ethanol has only about 5/8 the energy as gasoline. Therefore, it is physically impossible for E10 to provide any more than 93.75% of the power and efficiency of gasoline, and that is assuming that the ethanol burns in the gasoline engine at the same efficiency as gasoline, which it doesn't. Ethanol requires about 4.5 points higher compression ratio, about 10 degrees more ignition advance, and about 37.75% richer fuel mixture than gasoline to burn efficiently. Therefore, if the ethanol burns at half the efficiency of gasoline, you're lucky, and your net is 90.625% the energy output of gasoline. Also, since ethanol and gasoline do not mix, a chemical must be used to make them stay mixed, and the chemical does not burn, so its presence reduces the total amount of fuel in the mixture. There are 36 chemicals approved for improving miscibility, and they compose 8-33% of the final mixture. Some of these chemicals actually provide some energy value to the fuel, but much less than ethanol. Miscibility additives with energy value generally require higher concentrations to be effective. Miscibility additives that do not provide energy vaslue tend to require 12-18% concentrations. Miscibility additives that work with low concentrations actually inhibit combustion of gasoline and ethanol. Result is the best any miscibility additive can do is an additional 4.5% drop in efficiency, most are worse. Some significantly worse. When it's all said and done, it is physically impossible for E10 to provide more than 11 or so % of the power and efficiency of E0, in an engine tuned for gasoline, even if the air:fuel ratio is properly adjusted to compensate for the change in formulation. In practice, the real power and efficiency loss runs 17-23% in most vehicles, and can easily exceed 40%, depending on the particular circumstances.
Them's the facts. Like it or not.
Per unit of volume, ethanol has only about 5/8 the energy as gasoline. Therefore, it is physically impossible for E10 to provide any more than 93.75% of the power and efficiency of gasoline, and that is assuming that the ethanol burns in the gasoline engine at the same efficiency as gasoline, which it doesn't. Ethanol requires about 4.5 points higher compression ratio, about 10 degrees more ignition advance, and about 37.75% richer fuel mixture than gasoline to burn efficiently. Therefore, if the ethanol burns at half the efficiency of gasoline, you're lucky, and your net is 90.625% the energy output of gasoline. Also, since ethanol and gasoline do not mix, a chemical must be used to make them stay mixed, and the chemical does not burn, so its presence reduces the total amount of fuel in the mixture. There are 36 chemicals approved for improving miscibility, and they compose 8-33% of the final mixture. Some of these chemicals actually provide some energy value to the fuel, but much less than ethanol. Miscibility additives with energy value generally require higher concentrations to be effective. Miscibility additives that do not provide energy vaslue tend to require 12-18% concentrations. Miscibility additives that work with low concentrations actually inhibit combustion of gasoline and ethanol. Result is the best any miscibility additive can do is an additional 4.5% drop in efficiency, most are worse. Some significantly worse. When it's all said and done, it is physically impossible for E10 to provide more than 11 or so % of the power and efficiency of E0, in an engine tuned for gasoline, even if the air:fuel ratio is properly adjusted to compensate for the change in formulation. In practice, the real power and efficiency loss runs 17-23% in most vehicles, and can easily exceed 40%, depending on the particular circumstances.
Them's the facts. Like it or not.
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107 Posts
So Qwery,last thursday 1/4 of mile into my ride to work have to swich to reserve (E10),about 3 miles down the road I stop and fill the tank with some real gas. What is going on inside my tank now?
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3,513 Posts
The real gas and the E10 are duking it out in your tank.....the real gas is winning.
The reserve is effected by a short standpipe which is part of the fuel valve so your new gas immediately mixed with the old. Put another tank of real gas in there and there will be no trace of E10 left. Put real gas in the TW whenever you pass a station that has it, even if still half full, and you will reduce the negative effects of E10. I dislike E10 so much that I haul two 5 gallon cans to the real gas station about once a month and use them to fuel my bikes (and other small engines) at home.
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107 Posts
Thats a good one!!! Yes "The Real Thang" is kicking the corny out of the E10 in my thank!!! No Rocky right around my area we have few stations saling real gas and close to my house too. I just been cheap ,but now I got better mpg in my truck and my poor boat is happy too!!!The real gas and the E10 are duking it out in your tank.....the real gas is winning.![]()
The reserve is effected by a short standpipe which is part of the fuel valve so your new gas immediately mixed with the old. Put another tank of real gas in there and there will be no trace of E10 left. Put real gas in the TW whenever you pass a station that has it, even if still half full, and you will reduce the negative effects of E10. I dislike E10 so much that I haul two 5 gallon cans to the real gas station about once a month and use them to fuel my bikes (and other small engines) at home.
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Saw some of this today.
http://www.yamaha-mo...s#productscroll
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Fuel Med RX
Our NEW chambered bottle allows precise measuring of our special formulation that not only stabilizes all types of gasoline but provides superior metal corrosion protection from the high levels of Ethanol sulfate salts in today's fuel & provides advanced metal protection for future E-15 fuel. No other formula provides this level of ethanol fuel corrosion protection for metals and aluminum fuel system components, an alcohol-free formula that not only locks in fuel potency but helps to prevent fuel oxidation, phase separation, gum and varnish build up. Continuous use/In-season: Good practice is to treat the un-used fuel no later than 7 days after purchase, best practice is to treat fuel at time of purchase, treatment rate is 1 oz to every 3 gallons of gasoline. Storage Use/Out of Season: Treat fuel if will sit more than 60 days in the units fuel tank, treatment rate is 1 oz to 1 gallon of gasoline.
http://www.yamaha-mo...s#productscroll
Fuel Med RX
Our NEW chambered bottle allows precise measuring of our special formulation that not only stabilizes all types of gasoline but provides superior metal corrosion protection from the high levels of Ethanol sulfate salts in today's fuel & provides advanced metal protection for future E-15 fuel. No other formula provides this level of ethanol fuel corrosion protection for metals and aluminum fuel system components, an alcohol-free formula that not only locks in fuel potency but helps to prevent fuel oxidation, phase separation, gum and varnish build up. Continuous use/In-season: Good practice is to treat the un-used fuel no later than 7 days after purchase, best practice is to treat fuel at time of purchase, treatment rate is 1 oz to every 3 gallons of gasoline. Storage Use/Out of Season: Treat fuel if will sit more than 60 days in the units fuel tank, treatment rate is 1 oz to 1 gallon of gasoline.
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107 Posts
Yes its and you know is crazy becouse the gas station down from my house is selling the real gas for the same price of the ethanol gas right now!!! Go figure.
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Thats exactly right...I run ethanol-free gas in all my vehicles...the difference in mileage,performance its like night and day comparitively speaking.
Hers a website that will help you locate ethanol free stations in your state...except for NJ
http://www.pure-gas.org/
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560 Posts
I've used Lucas Fuel Stabilizer a lot over the years. The best story about it I can tell you is I bought a KFX400 that had been sitting for a long time, I think a year. The gas really smelled bad but my kid had already started it before I bought it so I started it and it barely idled. My kid said he adjusted the idle screw up to get it to idle. I figured I'd drain the gas but before I did, I decided to put about an ounce of the Lucas in the tank. All of sudden it started running smoother and the idle increased significantly. IIRC I had to back out the idle screw more than two full turns.
Qwerty, in taking your advice, the MSDS shows it contains < 90% Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic Distillate, whatever that is. I wasn't able to find a good reference on line.
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