Just curious about mounting 2 off road lights to my 06 TW. Does anyone know the capacity of the TW's charging system and whether or not I could safely mount 2 35 watt lights? These would be used rarely, but the trails I ride in Wyoming they would come in handy. Deep, dark forests with critters.
Off road lighting
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Info I gathered from the tw archives . Originally posted by *** TW2007 ***
Estimated power consumption
at 12 volts
Headlight Draws 5 amps
Panel Lights Draw about 1 amp (Neutral, High Beam, Turn, Instrument Light Combined)
Tail Light Draws 1.5 amps
Two Front Turn Lights (not Flashing) 1.5 amps When Flashing add another 1.5 amps.
Brake Light - ON add another 1.5 amps (Unless you switch to a led one)
Total estimated 9 amps or 108 watts
NOTE: after 6000 rpm the bikes alternator does not have alot of additional capability and the curve goes relatively flat. From 6000 to 8000 rpm you only get 1 amp extra output.
So if you run a big load on the bike you need to keep the rpm between 4000 and 8000 if you want to carry a load and keep the battery charged. This can be challenging off-road especially down hill.
Newer Model Power Output averaged at 14v
RPM ............... AMPS.....................WATTS
2000 ..................8............................112
4000 ..................13..........................182
6000 ..................14..........................196
8000 ..................15..........................210
Early Models 87-96 (This seems really low can anyone else confirm?)
RPM.........Amps........Watts
2000............1..............14
4000...........2.2...........30.8
8000...........3..............42
11000.........3.3...........46.2
Notes
The TW200E and earlier i believe has the headlight running straight off the charging circuit bypassing the battery.This might account for the lower power figures in the table above if they are only measuring power going to the battery and not total output. If your headlight only comes on when you start the bike, this is what you have.
Other notes: On my 2009 If I turned the headlight off while idling the stock flooded battery started bubbling in moments.
Estimated power consumption
at 12 volts
Headlight Draws 5 amps
Panel Lights Draw about 1 amp (Neutral, High Beam, Turn, Instrument Light Combined)
Tail Light Draws 1.5 amps
Two Front Turn Lights (not Flashing) 1.5 amps When Flashing add another 1.5 amps.
Brake Light - ON add another 1.5 amps (Unless you switch to a led one)
Total estimated 9 amps or 108 watts
NOTE: after 6000 rpm the bikes alternator does not have alot of additional capability and the curve goes relatively flat. From 6000 to 8000 rpm you only get 1 amp extra output.
So if you run a big load on the bike you need to keep the rpm between 4000 and 8000 if you want to carry a load and keep the battery charged. This can be challenging off-road especially down hill.
Newer Model Power Output averaged at 14v
RPM ............... AMPS.....................WATTS
2000 ..................8............................112
4000 ..................13..........................182
6000 ..................14..........................196
8000 ..................15..........................210
Early Models 87-96 (This seems really low can anyone else confirm?)
RPM.........Amps........Watts
2000............1..............14
4000...........2.2...........30.8
8000...........3..............42
11000.........3.3...........46.2
Notes
The TW200E and earlier i believe has the headlight running straight off the charging circuit bypassing the battery.This might account for the lower power figures in the table above if they are only measuring power going to the battery and not total output. If your headlight only comes on when you start the bike, this is what you have.
Other notes: On my 2009 If I turned the headlight off while idling the stock flooded battery started bubbling in moments.
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Bad info above.
Different brands of bulbs vary slightly in wattage, so this is all approximate. Remember that the late TW elecrtical system is designed around a load balanced with output. It is important to maintain this balance when swapping around lights. There is not enough "extra" electricity for adding significant lighting. Therefore, to do significant upgrades to output it is necessary to convert to High Intensity Discharge or LED lighting, or some combination thereof. Since it is customary to deal only with watts when doing anything with transport wiring other than calculating wire size, I'll speak only of watts to keep it as simple as possible. The wattages of the first 3 bulbs listed below come from the shop manual supplement for late model TWs, so they should be considered correct.
Late model TWs have a 55/60 watt headlight.
Tail and front markers are 8 watts each, total 24 watts.
The 194 speedo bulb draws about 3.4 watts.
The typical 756 high beam indicator draws 1.2 watts.
Total amp draw in neutral with the high beam on is about 87 watts.
Brake and turn bulbs, along with the other indicators, are intermittant and really don't need to be worried with because they are never on for long.
So, we have 87 watts with which to play.
How does 3 times the stock light with the stock pattern sound to you? Suppose we go to a high quality Japanese or German HID conversion for your stock H4 headlight? Don't buy a cheap conversion, you won't be satisfied. Shop around and you can even find a conversion with a waterproof ballast.
HID conversions come in 2 types and a wide range of color. It is critical to pick the right conversion or you'll have a ton of problems. Let's look at type first, then color.
The first type is HID on low and conventional halogen on high. Presumably, the low beam is so much better you'll never run high, but it has to be there to appease the government. You'll have to rewire the headlight so low does not go off when you flick high for the roadside inspector, because it takes a little time for the HID to relight. Flip from high to low on a dark road, and for half a second you have total darkness. Plus, you can't really run high beam and HID low at the same time due to excessive heat build up. Also, lighting them up is what wears out HID bulbs and causes them to fail--they'll run darn near forever if never turned off.
The second type of HID conversion, sometimes called bi-xenon, uses HID for both low and high beam. Either a shutter moves near the arc to reflect its apparent location to approximate the location of filaments in an H4 bulb, or an electromagnet moves the actual arc between the high and low beam filament locations. You'll want the type that actually moves the arc. These pattern much better in reflector housings like the TW's.
Assuming you've found a source of a good quality HID conversion with a bi-xenon bulb, you'll next need to pick the color. Avoid the temptation to be a showoff with the blues and purples. Nothing labels someone as an idiot faster than bright, glaring lights that don't really show up the road all that well. Pick a clean, white color, somewhere in the 4000 to 4300* Kelvin range. This color closely replicates natural daylight, shows up all colors of obstacles in the road, and does not advertise you basically are running an illegal headlight like to other colors do.
Installation is an easy step-by-step process that does not require cutting and splicing wires if you have a quality kit. Pretty much plug-and-play, except you'll need to rig an on-off switch for the headlight for when the electric start is being used. You now have 3 times the illumination of your stock headlight and a bulb that will last 2 or 3 times longer.
Unfortunately, your HID conversion only draws about 42 watts. Your stock headlight draws 55 or 60 watts. Not really a big deal unless you don't like overheating your battery and boiling it dry. You could easily add a 4 to 6 extra taillights for improved visibility and to rebalance the electrical system. You could also convert all your stock lights to LEDs and darn near have enough electrical power to run a second HID headlight. LEDs of equivalent light intensity draw about 1/10th the power of the stock bulbs. Switching to LEDs will free up about 25 watts, which, along with the 18 watts saved by the HID conversion, results in 43 excess watts, just the right amount to run a 2nd HID headlight, and project 6 times the stock illumination on the road.
Of course, if you don't want to spend all that money and do all that work, just pick up a Sylvania Silverstar Ultra H4 halogen bulb. Same wattage as stock, but much more efficient in making a brighter, whiter light. About $30, and well worth it. No, it's not as good as a dual bi-xenon HID conversion or Truck-Lite's DOT approved LED 7-inch round headlight (which is on my wish list), but it also is $250 cheaper than either.
Different brands of bulbs vary slightly in wattage, so this is all approximate. Remember that the late TW elecrtical system is designed around a load balanced with output. It is important to maintain this balance when swapping around lights. There is not enough "extra" electricity for adding significant lighting. Therefore, to do significant upgrades to output it is necessary to convert to High Intensity Discharge or LED lighting, or some combination thereof. Since it is customary to deal only with watts when doing anything with transport wiring other than calculating wire size, I'll speak only of watts to keep it as simple as possible. The wattages of the first 3 bulbs listed below come from the shop manual supplement for late model TWs, so they should be considered correct.
Late model TWs have a 55/60 watt headlight.
Tail and front markers are 8 watts each, total 24 watts.
The 194 speedo bulb draws about 3.4 watts.
The typical 756 high beam indicator draws 1.2 watts.
Total amp draw in neutral with the high beam on is about 87 watts.
Brake and turn bulbs, along with the other indicators, are intermittant and really don't need to be worried with because they are never on for long.
So, we have 87 watts with which to play.
How does 3 times the stock light with the stock pattern sound to you? Suppose we go to a high quality Japanese or German HID conversion for your stock H4 headlight? Don't buy a cheap conversion, you won't be satisfied. Shop around and you can even find a conversion with a waterproof ballast.
HID conversions come in 2 types and a wide range of color. It is critical to pick the right conversion or you'll have a ton of problems. Let's look at type first, then color.
The first type is HID on low and conventional halogen on high. Presumably, the low beam is so much better you'll never run high, but it has to be there to appease the government. You'll have to rewire the headlight so low does not go off when you flick high for the roadside inspector, because it takes a little time for the HID to relight. Flip from high to low on a dark road, and for half a second you have total darkness. Plus, you can't really run high beam and HID low at the same time due to excessive heat build up. Also, lighting them up is what wears out HID bulbs and causes them to fail--they'll run darn near forever if never turned off.
The second type of HID conversion, sometimes called bi-xenon, uses HID for both low and high beam. Either a shutter moves near the arc to reflect its apparent location to approximate the location of filaments in an H4 bulb, or an electromagnet moves the actual arc between the high and low beam filament locations. You'll want the type that actually moves the arc. These pattern much better in reflector housings like the TW's.
Assuming you've found a source of a good quality HID conversion with a bi-xenon bulb, you'll next need to pick the color. Avoid the temptation to be a showoff with the blues and purples. Nothing labels someone as an idiot faster than bright, glaring lights that don't really show up the road all that well. Pick a clean, white color, somewhere in the 4000 to 4300* Kelvin range. This color closely replicates natural daylight, shows up all colors of obstacles in the road, and does not advertise you basically are running an illegal headlight like to other colors do.
Installation is an easy step-by-step process that does not require cutting and splicing wires if you have a quality kit. Pretty much plug-and-play, except you'll need to rig an on-off switch for the headlight for when the electric start is being used. You now have 3 times the illumination of your stock headlight and a bulb that will last 2 or 3 times longer.
Unfortunately, your HID conversion only draws about 42 watts. Your stock headlight draws 55 or 60 watts. Not really a big deal unless you don't like overheating your battery and boiling it dry. You could easily add a 4 to 6 extra taillights for improved visibility and to rebalance the electrical system. You could also convert all your stock lights to LEDs and darn near have enough electrical power to run a second HID headlight. LEDs of equivalent light intensity draw about 1/10th the power of the stock bulbs. Switching to LEDs will free up about 25 watts, which, along with the 18 watts saved by the HID conversion, results in 43 excess watts, just the right amount to run a 2nd HID headlight, and project 6 times the stock illumination on the road.
Of course, if you don't want to spend all that money and do all that work, just pick up a Sylvania Silverstar Ultra H4 halogen bulb. Same wattage as stock, but much more efficient in making a brighter, whiter light. About $30, and well worth it. No, it's not as good as a dual bi-xenon HID conversion or Truck-Lite's DOT approved LED 7-inch round headlight (which is on my wish list), but it also is $250 cheaper than either.
I considered the denalis, but ended up with a pair of these along with a dimmer switch, 35w HID headlight, led tail light, and no front running lights. The light output is incredible! Check out the photos under the detailed description tab.
http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-QualiRegResou/-strse-14/Silver-Model-44-LED/Detail.bok
Dusty
http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-QualiRegResou/-strse-14/Silver-Model-44-LED/Detail.bok
Dusty
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The link is to an LED floodlight.
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That LED light looks interesting. I looks like it uses 4-5watt LED bulbs IF my calculations are correct (1.8 amps X twelve volts = 20+watts per light)
Do you have any photos of those lights mounted? How about photos of the stock light and then the LEDs on showing how they light up the terrain?
Do you have any photos of those lights mounted? How about photos of the stock light and then the LEDs on showing how they light up the terrain?
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"Deep, dark forests with critters" sounds scary! After riding with Ronnydog and his completely "dark" Tdub, I thought I'd put a switch on my front headlight. When I'm on the trail I turn off the front light so that my battery gets some charging juice. I have two GPSs - Garman 60sxc and 205w - that I like to keep running.
Would you like to run the off road lights AND your front headlight?
-Jeff
I just mounted them along with the HID headlight and the new battery two days ago. I have not even aimed the lights. The bike is still partially stripped for modifications. I can take a few photos though.
Here is a link to the ADV Rider thread. There are some photos there. I will post some photos later if any one is interested.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607184&page=11
Dusty
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607184&page=11
Dusty
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Dustyg
Did you change everything else to LED before adding the two flood lights? Looks like something I have been looking for. Also do you run them on the road or are they not safe?
I used LED lights for a time, but found the plastic housings less than durable.
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I have been running a single 55w projector fog for quite a while now. Works pretty well to light up the sides of the trail.
The ones I have are all aluminum and seem to be of good quality. Other have been using them off-road for years.
I used LED lights for a time, but found the plastic housings less than durable.
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I have been running a single 55w projector fog for quite a while now. Works pretty well to light up the sides of the trail.
The ones I have are all aluminum and seem to be of good quality. Others have been using them off-road for years.
Changes: Headlight: 35W HID, taillight: led, Turnsignals: rear and front incandesant (no running lights). Total with the LED flood lights slightly exceeds normal lighting capacity, but I have a continuously variable dimmer switch with an on off switch to dial the led floods down to conserve power and avoid completely blinding oncomming drivers for road use. The light output is incredible--makes the OEM headlight disapear! No photos of the light output. As you can see in the photos, the bike is not even put back together and will not be for a short time. I still have parts to order. The photo of the electrical housing shows the dimmer/on/off module controlled by a wireless keyfob.
You could add a pair of these along with a on/off switch to your stock headlight to turn it off while the leds are being used (off road). Two of the leds create vastly more light than the OEM headlight.
[media]http://s1123.photobucket.com/albums/l541/dganey1/Lights/?action=view¤t=DSCN3570.jpg[/media]
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I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that front running lights are required by some states; if not all.
-sS
-sS
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