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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looks like we will need to get a rider’s card for 2023 in order to go off road.
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Laughably unenforceable...
 

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Looks like it is only free if you are a Utah resident. "Non-residents Visitors" have to purchase a non-resident OHV permit...
The OHV permit separate from the course?
Under 18 requires the course for $35. (why it's free for over 18 and not for under 18 I can not guess)
On top of that is a separate OHV permit too?
 

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Boaters in many states have things similar.
 
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The OHV permit separate from the course?
Under 18 requires the course for $35. (why it's free for over 18 and not for under 18 I can not guess)
On top of that is a separate OHV permit too?

OHV permit only required for non plated, non street legal vehicles. Tdubs are considered street legal if they are properly plated. No OHV permit required.

1. One prints out and holds a OHV course card after passing the course. ( like an off road license)

2. OHV permit sticker is for each OHV vehicle. Renew every year.
 

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"Free and once in a life time."

How long before it costs money and is renewable every year?

Face it guys, the "good old days" ended (or will end) Feb. 1, 2023, at least regarding riding OHV in Utah sans a permit. As for plated vehicles being exempt (if they really are), its only a temporary oversight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
"Free and once in a life time."

How long before it costs money and is renewable every year?

Face it guys, the "good old days" ended (or will end) Feb. 1, 2023, at least regarding riding OHV in Utah sans a permit. As for plated vehicles being exempt (if they really are), its only a temporary oversight.
I read it that you just need the card, no permit for street legal vehicles.

There are just too many operators with high powered machines tearing up the trails and going wherever they want. Common sense seems to be lacking in the world today and replace by self entitlement so my guess is that the operator card requirement is an attempt to educate users and eliminate the excuse “I didn’t know …”
 

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I read it that you just need the card, no permit for street legal vehicles.

There are just too many operators with high powered machines tearing up the trails and going wherever they want. Common sense seems to be lacking in the world today and replace by self entitlement so my guess is that the operator card requirement is an attempt to educate users and eliminate the excuse “I didn’t know …”
I agree and think this is a prelude to enforcing judgement. It's impossible to argue the issue in front of a court judge when they know what was in the training. As far as ignorance of needing a permit at all, my guess is that signage is going to be heavy at any staging area, and that will be too bad because part of the charm is the lack of signs along the highway and parking areas.
But I thought that Moab areas are federal land, BLM specifically. How can a state collect fees as well as make licensing requirements on public federal lands? If I were ever to ride there without their education permit, that would be my argument.
Not to mention that BLM probably has the exclusive right to collect fees for accessing it's federal lands. I wonder how they feel about this? The Federal Land Recreation Enhancement Act (REA) authorizes the BLM to collect fees for recreational use in areas meeting certain criteria. Maybe this is why they can't collect a fee for adults but can for kids?

I also found this:
Can state laws be enforced on federal land?

No, they do not. State and local laws do not apply to federally managed lands. The U.S. Constitution actually states this.
The basis for this declaration is the “Property Clause” found in Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution.

The Property Clause states that only the U.S. Congress shall issue laws affecting lands and properties belonging the United States. State and local laws have no authority over federally managed lands.

Since it's BLM land, I looked up this:
BLM law enforcement officers enforce federal laws and do not have authority to enforce state laws
 

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While I hate this development I can understand the desire for it even if it further impinges on personal freedoms.
Perhaps like a Campfire Permit it is more of an implied contract between the state and it's citizens wherein the permit holder acknowledges his legal responsibilities rather than an actual document granting permission.
This is a basic tool the enforcement types have of moving beyond a disobedient public's typical knee jerk response of "I didn't know" evoked as an excuse to hopefully excuse them of consequences of their actions. Officers get tired of hearing " But I didn't know" when common sense would indicate otherwise.
It is also another meta-data collection device so fondly embraced by agencies these days to justify their new hires, promotions and increases in staff & annual budgets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I agree and think this is a prelude to enforcing judgement. It's impossible to argue the issue in front of a court judge when they know what was in the training. As far as ignorance of needing a permit at all, my guess is that signage is going to be heavy at any staging area, and that will be too bad because part of the charm is the lack of signs along the highway and parking areas.
But I thought that Moab areas are federal land, BLM specifically. How can a state collect fees as well as make licensing requirements on public federal lands? If I were ever to ride there without their education permit, that would be my argument.
Not to mention that BLM probably has the exclusive right to collect fees for accessing it's federal lands. I wonder how they feel about this? The Federal Land Recreation Enhancement Act (REA) authorizes the BLM to collect fees for recreational use in areas meeting certain criteria. Maybe this is why they can't collect a fee for adults but can for kids?

I also found this:


Since it's BLM land, I looked up this:
I am not sure where all the State land is around Moab, but when I was in the KOFA in Arizona I talked with a ranger and asked why I would need the Arizona OHV sticker to ride in the KOFA as all the trails are designated as Highways. His response was that you had to cross BLM land where you need the OHV sticker to ride. I also pointed out that I trailered my motorcycles in as we were conversing next to my campsite.
From your post, I would assume in Arizona the BLM authorities have agreed to Arizona’s OHV requirements. It could be the same in Utah.
 

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Too bad many government agencies are getting away with ignoring the US Constitution, not just the Bill of Rights but basic clauses like the Property Clause of Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution.
Solely the federal government is charged with the formation and administration of laws on public lands according to the Constitution. Nothing is mentioned about abrogating those duties to the state level. New contravening law proposals are often avoided instead by inception of "policies" where otherwise the new law could be deemed unconstitutional. Policies should not run counter to the basic values the formation of our nation was based upon and codified in our Constitution, its Amendments and the Bill of Rights.
 
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