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Discussion Starter #1
Leave it to me to screw up an oil change.

I just did it on the TW...after writing down all torque values, yada yada. It all went smooth, if messy...until the time came to re-assemble.

My torque wrench is older and also Chinese - and it doesn't do well in low torque values. HOW poorly, I was about to find out.

I just used a box wrench and Allen key to put the filter cover back on. Fine. But I wanted to be SURE that oil was going to the top of the engine...so I did like the manual said and took out that bolt. Fired it up, and out gushed the fresh oil.

Great. Now, put it back. Torque value: 7.1 ft-lbs.

Set the torque wrench for seven. Ease it in...a little more...a little more...and it feels like it's stretching. TOO much.

Back it out, it comes out fine...no apparent damage to the threads. Re-set the torque wrench for FIVE ft-pounds...ease it in...and feel it, again.

Trouble. I go to the dealer...they know me there,; they should, after $500 worth of tire sales on another bike. One tech gets his wrench out...same thing. He's not familiar with the TW. He thinks it's a rubber gasket in there...it's not, of course. The head mechanic, a sharp guy, pushes him aside...sets his mini-torque wrench for FOUR ft-lbs, and tightens it up. And tells me it's good to go.

Well, it's as good as we're gonna get it, I guess. But I am guessing those threads in the head are bollocksed.

How difficult will that be to repair? Am I likely to have problems? I recall it was Admiral who had that same bolt vibrate out and dump his oil while he was riding and completely unaware.
 

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Bummer! Steel bolt and aluminum head so the threads in the head are stripped, or nearly so.

If you have to do something and want to try simple first, use No. 1 Permatex, the kind the gets hard, and "glue" the bolt in place and vow never to remove again. Use just a little bit. Or use JB Weld, or re tap the hole for a larger bolt.

I am sure other suggestions are coming.
 

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Over the years of being on motorcycle forums Ive seen more guys screw stuff up with a torque wrench then guys without a torque wrench.

Maybe it comes with having wrenched on everything for 35+ years but those 2 items are not something Id use a torque wrench on. As a matter of fact my torque wrenches rarely come out unless Im wrenching on something inside and engine.
 

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Leave it to me to screw up an oil change.

I just did it on the TW...after writing down all torque values, yada yada. It all went smooth, if messy...until the time came to re-assemble.

My torque wrench is older and also Chinese - and it doesn't do well in low torque values. HOW poorly, I was about to find out.

I just used a box wrench and Allen key to put the filter cover back on. Fine. But I wanted to be SURE that oil was going to the top of the engine...so I did like the manual said and took out that bolt. Fired it up, and out gushed the fresh oil.

Great. Now, put it back. Torque value: 7.1 ft-lbs.

Set the torque wrench for seven. Ease it in...a little more...a little more...and it feels like it's stretching. TOO much.

Back it out, it comes out fine...no apparent damage to the threads. Re-set the torque wrench for FIVE ft-pounds...ease it in...and feel it, again.

Trouble. I go to the dealer...they know me there,; they should, after $500 worth of tire sales on another bike. One tech gets his wrench out...same thing. He's not familiar with the TW. He thinks it's a rubber gasket in there...it's not, of course. The head mechanic, a sharp guy, pushes him aside...sets his mini-torque wrench for FOUR ft-lbs, and tightens it up. And tells me it's good to go.

Well, it's as good as we're gonna get it, I guess. But I am guessing those threads in the head are bollocksed.

How difficult will that be to repair? Am I likely to have problems? I recall it was Admiral who had that same bolt vibrate out and dump his oil while he was riding and completely unaware.
Sorry to hear about your problem, stripping screws always scare me. How important is bleeding the oil after changing the oil? i have only read recently about the bleed screw and only after changing my oil three times.
 

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I always do that check, but I've never used a torque wrench on it. I just snug it up finger tight.
 

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All the oil bleed bolt issues Ive seen have been broken bolts, the alloy is pretty good on the head. You may have got lucky.
I agree with AGman. I would say that there is a very good chance that your problem is NOT with the head. Yamaha makes this particular screw out of a Play-Doh alloy. It is soft and prone to fail with a torsional fracture. I suspect they make it this way specifically so you do not ruin the head threads.

I'd obtain a new screw from Yamaha and give it another try.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well...."I" must agree with TWROG on this, as I have 3 different sized Snap-On torque wrenches, and I rarely ever use them, once you have experience with knowing how tight any bolt should be. I will use them on the clutch basket/spring bolts, but that is about it.

Also, there is that small COPPER washer under the head of that bolt that you "may" have stretched. Look at that "copper" washer, and see if it has been squashed to death, and....in my opinion...I would replace that with an aluminum crush washer, which gives a much more positive FEEL when seating the bolt to the head.
That's a good idea - except that I am NOT taking that bolt out again. Not until and unless the head comes off.

There's a good chance I didn't do any harm to anything. Also a good chance I've half-stripped it. When it's busted but together and working...you leave well enough alone.

And if at some future point I have a problem with oil not getting up to the cylinder head...I guess I'm not much worse off. I'll need a new head - and as it is, I will need the head off if I finish stripping those threads, anyway.

Sounds like I...didn't dodge the bullet so much as get winged by it.
 

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I recall it was Admiral who had that same bolt vibrate out and dump his oil while he was riding and completely unaware.
Like others have mentioned, I have never used a torque wrench to tight the bolt your talking about. Never had a problem before. However, on this day the bolt did come out I was on the way to work. I had ridden it around the place to the mailbox and back a few days before and it hadn't leaked.

What I can't remember 100% is if I even tightened the bolt at all! Did I just hand tighten it a few turns or did I tighten it all the way? I'm not sure and doubt myself as to what I actually did.

I find it hard to believe on my TW that the bolt actually backed out all the way if I had tightened it. This bolt was always tight or had resistenence when I loosened or removed it. So, my thinking is, I never tightened it all the way and somehow got distracted turning the process like making sure to turn my key off or something like that.
 

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One can always think outside the box. If it is a poor design why embrace it? Abandon it and re-engineer a superior solution. One could simply drill through existing bolt and tap in a smaller bolt. Better yet install a small valve with a barb on discharge end to route mess-making oil cleanly away in a tube when checking. No tools, just finger tightened. These are just silly examples of a world of small heat and oil resistant valves that could work. images-6.jpeg
 

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Hey Admiral, wasn't it you that removed the screw and used a piece of clear tubing and just waited until you saw the oil rising in the tube and then shut the engine off and allowed the oil to drain back down.

Somebody on here suggested that method and I thought that it would be a slick, no-mess technique.

(p.s. I have to confess - the only time that I have ever used this bolt to check for oil flow was after I completely tore down and rebuilt my 226 6-speed engine. I also should confess that I never use a torque wrench. There, I feel much better now!)
 

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The only time I take the oil filter cover is when the o-ring starts to leak and I want to replace it. At that time I clean the oil filter. Since I am re-using the same oil filter there is no need to check the oil flow.

I use torque wrenches a lot but many times I torque to less than what the book asks for (not for head bolts).

If there is an o-ring involved, I first hand tighten, then tighten until the o-ring is fully crushed and there is metal to metal contact, then just a teeny tiny bit more -- hardly anything at all -- for example on the valve cover bolts. I haven't had one come loose yet -- knock on wood! (This method works best when using new o-rings.)
 

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I like the Brian/Admiral idea of a short section of clear vinyl tubing screwed in to temporarily confirm oil flow since pressure is very low...oil weeps rather than squirts out this "bleed hole" but this would be for those with healthy threads, not Justpassingthrough's ( OP) questionable threads.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
One can always think outside the box. If it is a poor design why embrace it? Abandon it and re-engineer a superior solution. One could simply drill through existing bolt and tap in a smaller bolt. Better yet install a small valve with a barb on discharge end to route mess-making oil cleanly away in a tube when checking. No tools, just finger tightened. These are just silly examples of a world of small heat and oil resistant valves that could work. View attachment 22211
That's a good idea.

In concept.

In reality...you have the different thermal expansion rates of different metals. It can make a difference - and a mess.

I actually have some similar experience. I used to work on a rolling workshop and test bench, for a contractor to a major Western railroad.

We needed 120 volts clean, reliable, sine-wave AC power for our test rigs. In those days inverters were primitive.

Under the floor of the workshop area of our box van/Hi-Rail test truck, we had a Yanmar generator. Diesel. Ran off fuel off the truck-engine tank.

Good deal. But diesels, even small diesels, need frequent oil changes. And unbolting that generator for an oil change was a PITA.

We had a steel water pipe threaded into the oil drain-plug opening; and then a spigot eighteen inches away. Just open the valve, and out flows the oil. Add fresh; and you could get away with changing the oil filter once a month or so.

That was the theory. In reality...the aluminum crankcase would expand more than the steel water pipe, which was cooler anyway, extending outside the immediate source of heat. So the pipe would loosen when things got hot; and it had been known to start rotating from vibration. Once I caught it almost all the way out.

Same issue here. The immediate problem to me is that the threads in the aluminum head casting are buggered. I could drill them out, of course; and cut new threads.

And then screw one of these taps in.

Which wouldn't expand at the same rate as the aluminum in the head.

Brazing one in, would just invite more problems. It would probably crack within hours.

Now, I'm not an engine builder or a metalurgist. Maybe someone with actual experience could set me straight...
 

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Hey Admiral, wasn't it you that removed the screw and used a piece of clear tubing and just waited until you saw the oil rising in the tube and then shut the engine off and allowed the oil to drain back down.

Somebody on here suggested that method and I thought that it would be a slick, no-mess technique.

(p.s. I have to confess - the only time that I have ever used this bolt to check for oil flow was after I completely tore down and rebuilt my 226 6-speed engine. I also should confess that I never use a torque wrench. There, I feel much better now!)
Yes, but it don't help if one doesn't secure the bolt!:BangHead:
 

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Hey Admiral, wasn't it you that removed the screw and used a piece of clear tubing and just waited until you saw the oil rising in the tube and then shut the engine off and allowed the oil to drain back down.

Somebody on here suggested that method and I thought that it would be a slick, no-mess technique.

(p.s. I have to confess - the only time that I have ever used this bolt to check for oil flow was after I completely tore down and rebuilt my 226 6-speed engine. I also should confess that I never use a torque wrench. There, I feel much better now!)
The No Mess Oil Galley Bolt Method of Checking Oil Flow.

Note: The oil moves into the tube slow as the TW's Oil Pump is low pressure so don't worry about oil squirting out the end of the tube. You'll have plenty of time to kill the engine. Also make sure you push the splice somewhat snug into the oil galley hole so it stays or you can hold it with one hand and operate the starter/kill switch buttons with the other.

I finally took a picture of the clear tube to see the oil flow from the oil galley bolt after changing the oil. I use a small drip irrigation splice and put a section of clear plastic tube at the end. I then remove the oil galley bolt, push the plastic splice in the oil galley hole, start the engine and watch for the oil to appear in the plastic tubing. As soon as I see the oil I hit the kill switch. I remove the tube once the oil has drained back into the head then re-install the oil galley bolt.




The splice I use
 
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