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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone tried to us an oil extractor to change oil?

My 17 year old Mercedes is designed for this (does not even have a drain bolt) and I do oil changes anding up and with clean hands.
 

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You still should remove the oil filter screen and flush out all debris. If we had a spin on / throw away filter it would be ok but for this style of lube system I would never skip the flushing of the screen. It was shocking how many filings and small bits that came out for the first few oil changes. The extractors work great on lawnmowers and outboards, but for this engine its definitely a hot oil drain and filter rinse for me.
Here is a picture of what can be left behind if you don't do a total flush and rinse. This was posted on an oil change thread be another member: 34697783061_4c06802aba_z.jpg
 

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This makes no sense at all. You need to look at and clean both the oil drain screen and the oil filter screen at EVERY oil change!
(Unless you only want your TW to last 5 years.) :angry7:
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
New to all this and in reading your responses I see I did not understand that the drain plug incorporates a strainer. Oil extraction would certainly not remove anything trapped there. TWs and oil extraction do not mix.

Since I’m here to learn, what is the purpose of the oil strainer? None of my cars, mowers, generators, etc. have had them. Is this belt-and-suspenders engineering or are tolerances so loose that metal accumulates there?
 

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The drain plug screen takes out the big chunks and the oil filter takes out the little chunks....old fashioned belt and suspenders engineering....and yes, the TW tolerances are loose compared to modern motorcycle engines....except for Harleys. :p Remember, the TW was designed in the mid 80's with 1970's technology....that is why we love them so.

"We don't need no steenking fuel injection!"
 

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I like the idea of reusable filters on the TW. After the first few oil changes you don't see the metal like the first changes. If you were to start seeing more particles it might be an incentive to look into the problem before having a catastrophic issue.
 

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Let me play Devil's Advocate for your intellectual considration:
Filters need to be cleaned or changed when they get clogged enough to interfere with fluid flow rates. Certainly they can be electively serviced at any time of we like since we seem to want particulates out of the engine even if they are doing no harm trapped on a filter.
The ~200 mesh filter medium in post #3 looks to be less than 1% covered, far from being clogged like an air filter can get clogged. It is holding those particles safely out of the fluid stream, or do you think somehow it is going to let go of those particles and re-introduce them into the main part of engine and gear box?
If so, please explain how you think this re-introduction happens.
 

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I used to have an extractor like that that I used for my riding mower. For my bikes I get down on my knees and do the religious services the old way.
And of course the filters. TWs got the filter cleaned and other bikes got it changed.
 

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Let me play Devil's Advocate for your intellectual consideration:
....... do you think somehow it is going to let go of those particles and re-introduce them into the main part of engine and gear box? ......
I have no doubt that whatever visible particles you see in the oil filter will not be re-introduced, however regular inspection and cleaning of said filter will give one a pretty good idea of how much metal the engine is shedding in X number of miles, and how that changes over the life of the engine. Non regular inspection will not. This is why I look at the filter at ~500 mile intervals for the first 3,000 miles.

Referencing my previous post about seeing the glint from micro particles (sub 10 micron) in the drained oil in sunlight, it is apparent that there is stuff you won't see in either filter. This is why 1,000 or maybe 1,500 mile oil changes in a TW are a good idea, even after break-in, when at least three changes before 1,000 miles is a VERY good idea.

In contrast, my R1200GS goes 6,000 miles between oil and filter changes from day one and I have seen only a minuscule number of steel particles on the drain plug magnet. The oil is still colored like dark honey! That engine has completely different technology from the TW.
 

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Draining hot oil out via the drain fitting followed by fresh oil seems the way to get those fine particulates out. Certainly clean or replace the filter for those chunky bits.
 

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I have pleated filters in my TW's and the times I did check them there was where was so little stuff in them I have pretty much given up doing it. I do change the oil every 1500 or so miles. As for only lasting 5 years, one TW I got in 2009 with 2,000 miles on it and it now has over 30,000 and is going strong.
 

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While not germane to our TW oil filters it is interesting to note is that most filters do a better job once they develop a filter cake. The ninety eighth percentile particle size after a hundred or so passes is finer than the single pass 98th percentile typically reported and gets progressively finer as a filter cake develops. Of course head loss increases at expense of flow rate so there gets to be a point of diminishing returns such that filter replacement is warranted.
After the Mt. Saint Helens eruption my job entailed a lot of volcanic ash sampling and testing. I found out later that the daily replacement of my truck's air filter was somewhat premature despite significant particulate buildup. The very process of exchanging filters also created opportunities for ash to get into the intake tract despite using care. The blowing abrasive ash was problematic until rains cemented it down like wet cement then no more dust, just a different problem.
 

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On the two used bikes. I just felt like doing back to back oil changes. So I warmed them both up to hot with a short ride and drained both and then refilled and done it again, cleaned the filter the first time and give both new the second. Just felt good to me and only cost a couple of extra quarts of oil. Plus this flush idea gets a high % of the oil in the engine to be of known type through dilution. Both bikes seem so different riding before and both ride like twins now. Also done all the carb, clutch and throttle cable adjusting properly.
 
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