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Discussion Starter #1
Are there any aftermarket cams (racing) for an older (87) TW? If not, does anyone have the specs for a weld and regrind? Is is possible that a performance gain may be realized by using a cam from a particular year TW?
 

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Are there any aftermarket cams (racing) for an older (87) TW? If not, does anyone have the specs for a weld and regrind? Is is possible that a performance gain may be realized by using a cam from a particular year TW?


As far as I know, all TW cams are the same.



I have a webcam camshaft, stage 1, and I like it. Wouldn't mind trying their next stage up, but it requires new springs and I didn't feel like going that route quite yet. They have 3 stages available.



I think the TTR230 cam has some more duration, but for the cost of finding one you'd be better off going with the webcam. But webcams are a hard weld/regrind so if that doesn't appeal to you the options become limited.



My cam was $142 shipped to my door.



Apparently you can't link to the searched webpage for a particular bike, so here is the link to webcams:

http://www.webcamshafts.com/



Pat



edit: my signature has a couple YouTube videos of my acceleration with the setup as listed in the description on the videos.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
As far as I know, all TW cams are the same.



I have a webcam camshaft, stage 1, and I like it. Wouldn't mind trying their next stage up, but it requires new springs and I didn't feel like going that route quite yet. They have 3 stages available.



I think the TTR230 cam has some more duration, but for the cost of finding one you'd be better off going with the webcam. But webcams are a hard weld/regrind so if that doesn't appeal to you the options become limited.



My cam was $142 shipped to my door.



Apparently you can't link to the searched webpage for a particular bike, so here is the link to webcams:

http://www.webcamshafts.com/



Pat



edit: my signature has a couple YouTube videos of my acceleration with the setup as listed in the description on the videos.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
As far as I know, all TW cams are the same.



I have a webcam camshaft, stage 1, and I like it. Wouldn't mind trying their next stage up, but it requires new springs and I didn't feel like going that route quite yet. They have 3 stages available.



I think the TTR230 cam has some more duration, but for the cost of finding one you'd be better off going with the webcam. But webcams are a hard weld/regrind so if that doesn't appeal to you the options become limited.



My cam was $142 shipped to my door.



Apparently you can't link to the searched webpage for a particular bike, so here is the link to webcams:

http://www.webcamshafts.com/



Pat



edit: my signature has a couple YouTube videos of my acceleration with the setup as listed in the description on the videos.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
[quote name='pgilles' date='26 August 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1282851380' post='2582']

As far as I know, all TW cams are the same.



I have a webcam camshaft, stage 1, and I like it. Wouldn't mind trying their next stage up, but it requires new springs and I didn't feel like going that route quite yet. They have 3 stages available.



I think the TTR230 cam has some more duration, but for the cost of finding one you'd be better off going with the webcam. But webcams are a hard weld/regrind so if that doesn't appeal to you the options become limited.



My cam was $142 shipped to my door.



Apparently you can't link to the searched webpage for a particular bike, so here is the link to webcams:

http://www.webcamshafts.com/







Pat,

Thank you for the prompt reply. I don't see a need to overbuild such a small motor, but some additional power in the upper rpm would be nice. The stage 1 cam, for $142 was the performance gain worth it? Did you get more responce in the midrange or upper hook? Finally, if you had any complaints about this cam what would it be? Searching for information, I stumbled onto this site. I had NO idea there was such a large following on tw's. I have owned mine for about 2 weeks and have spent little time riding it. (6 miles?) It is pretty crisp for an '87. It has a 14/50, stock tires, stock exhaust, carb, 40 pilot, 120 main, and with my rotund posterior, (I'm a big guy, 6-5 230 lbs) it seems to be revving its little lungs out at 55 mph. (sea level) I am putting on a 15 tooth counter, and with taller gearing, I will need a bump in the power delivery at an upper rpm. Pat, will the stage 1 cam in your opinion, get the job done? In addition, I went through the archives on this site and have read about guys cruising? at 65 mph. I have some doubts that this speed could be sustained for long periods of time. (I will risk an onslaught of replys to the contrary) Thank you for your time,

Superdave

P.S. A most interesting website, what the heck am I getting into?
 

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It has a 14/50, stock tires, stock exhaust, carb, 40 pilot, 120 main, and with my rotund posterior, (I'm a big guy, 6-5 230 lbs) it seems to be revving its little lungs out at 55 mph. (sea level) I am putting on a 15 tooth counter, and with taller gearing, I will need a bump in the power delivery at an upper rpm. Pat, will the stage 1 cam in your opinion, get the job done? In addition, I went through the archives on this site and have read about guys cruising? at 65 mph. I have some doubts that this speed could be sustained for long periods of time.


I don't want to derail this thread on a carb tuning tangent, but you might be a little rich with a 120 main and stock everything. Not terribly rich, but mine wouldn't quite rev out with a 120 in the summer without sputtering a bit. The 118 I swapped out makes for a more 'lively' bike all around. I tried to compile some of the info from the old board here:



http://tw200forum.com/index.php?/topic/157-1987-2000-model-carb-tuning/page__p__993__fromsearch__1#entry993



The 15t front will help highway cruising quite a bit. I have a 15t, and I can comfortably cruise for long periods up to 60mph or so. It'll squirt up to 70mph if commanded, but it's not happy being there for long.



Anyway, I'm going to keep watching this thread for the cam info -- sounds like an interesting mod with pretty good bang/buck.



trey
 

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Pat,

Thank you for the prompt reply. I don't see a need to overbuild such a small motor, but some additional power in the upper rpm would be nice. The stage 1 cam, for $142 was the performance gain worth it? Did you get more responce in the midrange or upper hook? Finally, if you had any complaints about this cam what would it be? Searching for information, I stumbled onto this site. I had NO idea there was such a large following on tw's. I have owned mine for about 2 weeks and have spent little time riding it. (6 miles?) It is pretty crisp for an '87. It has a 14/50, stock tires, stock exhaust, carb, 40 pilot, 120 main, and with my rotund posterior, (I'm a big guy, 6-5 230 lbs) it seems to be revving its little lungs out at 55 mph. (sea level) I am putting on a 15 tooth counter, and with taller gearing, I will need a bump in the power delivery at an upper rpm. Pat, will the stage 1 cam in your opinion, get the job done? In addition, I went through the archives on this site and have read about guys cruising? at 65 mph. I have some doubts that this speed could be sustained for long periods of time. (I will risk an onslaught of replys to the contrary) Thank you for your time,

Superdave

P.S. A most interesting website, what the heck am I getting into?




Maybe there isn't a need to overbuild this little motor, but there is a want to overbuild it. Might as well! People mod 50cc Honda Ruckus's, why not a 200cc TW?




I have been happy with the bang for the buck with the cam purchase. As webcam states, its provides increase across the powerband, which I agree with but it's more noticeable in the mid to upper range. ***NOTE: I noticed that the website now states it requires an exhaust system and their valve springs. It didn't say that when I purchased...hmmm?? Well, I've used the stage 1 for 500+ miles so far without issue.



I cruise at 75mph (WOT) every day on my way to and from work. Headwinds still play a factor, so I can go at least 70mph but if the winds aren't horrible I'm up at 75mph. If I tuck down I can get it to 80mph, but that's not very comfortable. (Maybe a Jimbo shield would help me here). When my bike was stock I could get to 70mph but it took a LONG time and sometimes I never got there. This cam, along with my other mods, gets me up to speed much quicker and allows me to hold highway speed. Again, check out my videos linked in my signature below.



I'm an advocate of the $142 cam upgrade rather than the $260 exhaust (new FMF) upgrade, but I'm blind in saying that as I haven't upgraded my exhaust yet. I just won't spend that amount of money on a piece of pipe. So I say go for the cam and report back with your findings to begin building up more reviews of it.



Pat
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hey Guys,

When I went to the webcam site (correct me if I'm wrong) they not longer call it a stage 1 cam. The spring kit is said to be needed as well. Hmm...are they trying to sell more parts? When you "overbuild" a motor, they can become quite tempermental. Reliability and starting issues on a high strung motor can rear their ugly head. What I want is my tw to sing a happy note at 65mph. The stage 1 cam (if available) sounds like it will get the job accomplished. (and keep the bike quiet) While I wait for my 15 tooth counter, and before I buy a cam, I think it would be wise to get a #118 main and try a few passes. Presently, there dosen't seem to be any issues at a higher rpm, other than a lower top speed. As I mentioned earlier my saddle time on my tw has been quite limited. Presently, the bike has the snorkel removed, and the needle isn't shimmed. (one thing at a time) I checked the valves, (they were ok) the cam chain was just a little loose at this time. Thanks for your time and advise,

Superdave
 

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Hey Guys,

When I went to the webcam site (correct me if I'm wrong) they not longer call it a stage 1 cam. The spring kit is said to be needed as well. Hmm...are they trying to sell more parts? When you "overbuild" a motor, they can become quite tempermental. Reliability and starting issues on a high strung motor can rear their ugly head. What I want is my tw to sing a happy note at 65mph. The stage 1 cam (if available) sounds like it will get the job accomplished. (and keep the bike quiet) While I wait for my 15 tooth counter, and before I buy a cam, I think it would be wise to get a #118 main and try a few passes. Presently, there dosen't seem to be any issues at a higher rpm, other than a lower top speed. As I mentioned earlier my saddle time on my tw has been quite limited. Presently, the bike has the snorkel removed, and the needle isn't shimmed. (one thing at a time) I checked the valves, (they were ok) the cam chain was just a little loose at this time. Thanks for your time and advise,

Superdave


If you search for cams for the TW you will only see grind #40a (which is the stage 1). If you look at the TTR230 cam options, there are 3 options. All 3 which can be used on the TW. Webcam goes by "grind numbers" but I've also seen it listed as "stages" on distributors pages...people understand stages quicker/easier than a random grind number.



I can say my engine is not tempermental. It has its good days and then it has its days that it just isn't running at the top of its game. But it's due more to the environmental factors (temperature, wind, humidity) than the mods I've done.



First and foremost, get your bike tuned well as is. Play with some carb settings, get that new sprocket in there and get a feel for it. You may end up liking what you have and sticking with it, saving yourself some cash.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If you search for cams for the TW you will only see grind #40a (which is the stage 1). If you look at the TTR230 cam options, there are 3 options. All 3 which can be used on the TW. Webcam goes by "grind numbers" but I've also seen it listed as "stages" on distributors pages...people understand stages quicker/easier than a random grind number.



I can say my engine is not tempermental. It has its good days and then it has its days that it just isn't running at the top of its game. But it's due more to the environmental factors (temperature, wind, humidity) than the mods I've done.



First and foremost, get your bike tuned well as is. Play with some carb settings, get that new sprocket in there and get a feel for it. You may end up liking what you have and sticking with it, saving yourself some cash.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hey Pat,

Watched speedometer video shot 2, (couldn't locate #1) and to quote Darth Vadar: "impressive, most impressive." The motor sounds like 5th is geared as high as you can possibly get it. I was in total disbelief at the top speed! My goal of a cruising speed of 65 mph looks like it can easily be obtainable with a stock motor, spot-on jetting, and a stage 1 cam. The first test will be with the #118 main and a 15 tooth counter. When the changes and passes are complete, I will post the results.

Superdave
 

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Keep in mind that all the engine components need to be tuned to work together. Adding a cam or pipe or rejetting the carb individually might not see much gain from one mod alone. However, sometimes the right cam will allow a pipe to work better, and sometimes the right pipe will allow a cam to work better. For instance, say a cam on an otherwise stock engine gains 1hp. A pipe on an otherwise stock engine gains 1hp. A rejetted carb on an otherwise stock engine gains 1hp. You would think that doing all 3 would gain 3 hp, but it often doesn't work that way. The cam and pipe together loses 2hp because now the fuel mixture is way too lean. Rejetting the carb is likely to gain back the 2hp loss, plus 4hp more, for a net gain of 4hp from a combination of 3 mods good for 1hp each on a stock engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Keep in mind that all the engine components need to be tuned to work together. Adding a cam or pipe or rejetting the carb individually might not see much gain from one mod alone. However, sometimes the right cam will allow a pipe to work better, and sometimes the right pipe will allow a cam to work better. For instance, say a cam on an otherwise stock engine gains 1hp. A pipe on an otherwise stock engine gains 1hp. A rejetted carb on an otherwise stock engine gains 1hp. You would think that doing all 3 would gain 3 hp, but it often doesn't work that way. The cam and pipe together loses 2hp because now the fuel mixture is way too lean. Rejetting the carb is likely to gain back the 2hp loss, plus 4hp more, for a net gain of 4hp from a combination of 3 mods good for 1hp each on a stock engine.
I do not disagree with your premise, however there are a few facts to take into consideration. Webcams has a product to sell, the mod being discussed is the stage 1 cam. This mod is a mild cam, as there are two more that have a higher lift and longer duration. Webcam makes no mention of carb or exhaust modifications needed with the stage 1 cam. As discussed earlier, Pat has done my work for me. He already has the stage 1 cam in his tw, has spot on jetting, and nothing else. He seems quite satified with the results. After watching his u-tube video, hell, I'm convinced! (watch it, its pretty cool!) We are talking about an outdated 200cc airhammer here, this may be the easiest performance modification I can make. After installing the cam, a simple main jet check, (bump it up or down) a possible shim on the needle, (another easy adjustment) and I'm done! I have no need or want to go any further. The only differences between Pat's tw and mine are relatively minor, (his is newer) the engines are identical internally. I am confident that I can get similar results, and I will communicate sucess or failure to anyone that is interested.

Superdave
 

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Now I know what I´ll do next winter.
pgilles´s TW goes just as much better than I´d like to. I think there is about something 6-8 hp more... What do you think, have anyone dynoed with Web Cam(shaft)?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Now I know what I´ll do next winter.
pgilles´s TW goes just as much better than I´d like to. I think there is about something 6-8 hp more... What do you think, have anyone dynoed with Web Cam(shaft)?
I installed the 15 tooth sproket and did a pass. The top speed was 65 mph, (10mph increase) but the power seemed to flatten out at the top speed as before. Got a #116 main from a friend, (replacing a #120) installed it, and did a pass. Top speed was 66 mph, the power didn't seem to flatten out as much on top. (Still waiting for the #118 main) The webcam came in, it took about 2 hrs. to install. After a 15 min break-in, I did 73 mph pass with the #116 main. What really astonished me was the great midrange leading to the top end. Is the webcam worth it? in my opinion, Yes! The bike starts easily and runs great. There is quite a bit more pulling power on hills, and it accelerates much quicker. What is next is to install the #118 main, and do a few passes.
 

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I installed the 15 tooth sproket and did a pass. The top speed was 65 mph, (10mph increase) but the power seemed to flatten out at the top speed as before. Got a #116 main from a friend, (replacing a #120) installed it, and did a pass. Top speed was 66 mph, the power didn't seem to flatten out as much on top. (Still waiting for the #118 main) The webcam came in, it took about 2 hrs. to install. After a 15 min break-in, I did 73 mph pass with the #116 main. What really astonished me was the great midrange leading to the top end. Is the webcam worth it? in my opinion, Yes! The bike starts easily and runs great. There is quite a bit more pulling power on hills, and it accelerates much quicker. What is next is to install the #118 main, and do a few passes.


When you get some long miles on the bike, a note on fuel mileage would be great.

Does more power mean the engine is thirstier? By how much?



Probably want to upgrade the tank with this mod.
 

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I installed the 15 tooth sproket and did a pass. The top speed was 65 mph, (10mph increase) but the power seemed to flatten out at the top speed as before. Got a #116 main from a friend, (replacing a #120) installed it, and did a pass. Top speed was 66 mph, the power didn't seem to flatten out as much on top. (Still waiting for the #118 main) The webcam came in, it took about 2 hrs. to install. After a 15 min break-in, I did 73 mph pass with the #116 main. What really astonished me was the great midrange leading to the top end. Is the webcam worth it? in my opinion, Yes! The bike starts easily and runs great. There is quite a bit more pulling power on hills, and it accelerates much quicker. What is next is to install the #118 main, and do a few passes.


Glad to hear you experienced the same results as myself. It's a great bang-for-your-buck! I've never experienced any hard starts, first kick and it's running every time.



As far as fuel mileage, I usually run the bike hard. When accelerating I bang through the gears and spend 15 minutes of my 30 minute commute at 70mph+. My mileage has been between 58-62mpg. I never noticed a drastic drop from the cam, the amount of time at WOT and banging through the gears are what seem to prevent me from getting the higher mpg's.
 

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Glad to hear you experienced the same results as myself. It's a great bang-for-your-buck! I've never experienced any hard starts, first kick and it's running every time.



As far as fuel mileage, I usually run the bike hard. When accelerating I bang through the gears and spend 15 minutes of my 30 minute commute at 70mph+. My mileage has been between 58-62mpg. I never noticed a drastic drop from the cam, the amount of time at WOT and banging through the gears are what seem to prevent me from getting the higher mpg's.


Acceptable. At least it didn't make the mileage drop into the 40's. That would have been a deal breaker.



Cam just went up a few places on my list of future mods.



Did you have to adjust the timing? I wonder how that would affect performance.

 

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Acceptable. At least it didn't make the mileage drop into the 40's. That would have been a deal breaker.



Cam just went up a few places on my list of future mods.



Did you have to adjust the timing? I wonder how that would affect performance.


I initially had the cam timing off by one tooth, but moved it back to the stock location. This was due to a discrepancy I had with which tick mark to use on the flywheel...I thought I was supposed to use the middle mark but when I used the last mark it made the cam tick mark line up perfectly. It ran with it advanced one tooth, for what it's worth. But as a disclaimer, I'll advise against it unless you do the proper valve-to-piston clearance measurements
 

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I initially had the cam timing off by one tooth, but moved it back to the stock location. This was due to a discrepancy I had with which tick mark to use on the flywheel...I thought I was supposed to use the middle mark but when I used the last mark it made the cam tick mark line up perfectly. It ran with it advanced one tooth, for what it's worth. But as a disclaimer, I'll advise against it unless you do the proper valve-to-piston clearance measurements
I have left the timing stock, This has been a great (and cheap) mod. The bike starts fine, (hot or cold) the acceleration is vastly improved. Now I'm at the road most of you have already been down. (jetting) Installed the #118, (started at #120, then #116) did a few passes, and to my suprise, there was an occasional slight sputter at a high RPM! This is perplexing, as the #116 and the #120 would at least rev w/o missing. Hmm... nice weather, 65 degrees, plug is a nice medium tan color, (no throttle chop) I just happen to have a #122. I know some of you guys are running them. Before I put the #116 back in, (and calling it good) I'm going to give it a try for giggles.
 
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