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Discussion Starter #1
PICTURE: THE TW AFTER THE TRIP. FILTHY DIRTY AND A FORK SEAL IS LEAKING, BUT I LOVE IT.







Last Monday, 8/20/12, I needed to make a run up to near Lake Tahoe. A friend had crashed his Suzuki Hayabusa at Fernley Racetrack near Reno, NV. He had located an engineless replacement bike in Pasadena and he asked if I could deliver it to him. There was just enough room in my truck to include the TW. I had been planning to go up there anyway to see how well everything on the TW worked. I arrived in the wee hours Tuesday morning.



He picked up the Suzuki later on Tuesday morning, so my afternoon was free. I was staying in Gardnerville Nv., which has some great riding in the nearby Pine Nuts Mountains.



I spent four hours riding the Pine Nuts between 5000 and 6500 feet. Varied terrain including single and two-track, lots of sand including washes full of deep sand. Lots of rocks and a few water crossings. Some steep hills. That was my first time to really push the TW with its Shinko 244 and its 15/47 gearing. No issues, so the big test was on for the next day.



At 9am I was on my way up Ebbetts Pass(Sierra Nevada Mts.). I parked the truck about 2 miles off the highway at 7500 feet elevation. I had previously run the bike near San Diego at elevations near 4000 feet. I have always been a jet-changer, but at that lower elevation it had seemed perfect.



At 7500' on Ebbetts I thought it should be a bit rich so I started it from cold with no choke. It started immediately, then died. On the re-start it kept running. Obviously slightly rich, but not bad.



I pounded that bike over those trails and two tracks for 5 hours, going above 8000 feet and dropping down to 7000. I compared the TW to all of the other bikes I had ridden in those places, and for me RIGHT NOW, the TW was far superior. My conclusions are below:



SHINKO 244--



When running the OEM front tire in the mountains east of San Diego, the front end had felt skittish. I had read on this forum that the OEM front tire would do that. It did. In looking for a replacement, I relied heavily on the reports right here. Riders here praised the Shinko 244 and it fit what I wanted from a front tire. I had it mounted and reported on my two brief trips into the local mountains. It seemed good, but I was cautious in my praise. I needed a better test.



I know that the T-Dub is known for going slow, and it is good for that. Unfortunately when going slow over rough terrain the bike bounces around and is easily deflected; particularly with that OEM tire. I tried going faster and the bike stabilized to some degree, but the front end would not hold a line, creating some anxious moments.



In the deep sand washes of the Pine Nuts or the rocky trails and steep hills of the Sierras, the Shinko was flawless. It is the perfect shape for sand, and those huge knobs grab onto slippery rocks and tree roots as well as anything I have seen. One stream was about a foot deep and full of melon sized rocks. No slippage from that tire.



On a couple of steep down-hills I intentionally used a lot of front brake; something I could not do with the OEM. The grip of that tire is really good. With the Shinko mounted, whenever the bike would start bouncing around I just opened the throttle a bit. That solved the problem, just as it used to with bigger bikes when I was a better rider. Usually any bouncing around was just the rear wheel and that's not nearly as serious as the front. Easily handled. I was running 14psi, front and rear.



15/47 GEARING



I never had the slightest problem with the 15/47 gearing, but can see where it might be too tall for some riders who prefer to go slower than walking speed.



I can see where Qwerty's advice, "either 15 or 47 but not both," might be good advice for many.



Gearing is an interesting subject and I'll touch on it in a later post.



To sum up, I love the T-Dub, and if there is a better front tire for it than the Shinko 244 somebody needs to tell me about it. I doubt that it exists.
 

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Great read man, wish I was with ya. I know that whole area pretty well myself, specially pine nut. Outstanding. I went with the Kenda 270 (yet to be mounted) with the same goals and expectations (appears they're really the same tire) so I'm stoked to see your reaction. I'm less than two hours from that area, so next time you're up, buzz me man. Love to hit it again with ya. Sounds like we're in the same boat, rode screaming beasts before. I'm with ya on the Dub... its fun to see and smell things you were too "busy" to before eh? Ride on.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The one thing I did not try was really sticky mud, like red clay or adobe. I doubt if anything works well in that stuff.
 

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The one thing I did not try was really sticky mud, like red clay or adobe. I doubt if anything works well in that stuff.
Surprisingly the 244 does pretty well in the red clay... or as good as any dual-sport tire can. The stock rear in that stuff is horrible!
 

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[quote the 244 The stock rear in that stuff is horrible!

[/quote]



Thanks for the report - it has been converted to a pdf and stored in my Mods/Tires folder. It is what I plan to buy.
 

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PICTURE: THE TW AFTER THE TRIP. FILTHY DIRTY AND A FORK SEAL IS LEAKING, BUT I LOVE IT.
Regarding your leaking fork seal, have you tried one of these.







A lot of times it's dirt in the seal/wiper that causes the leak and it doesn't take much. You slip this between the tube and the wiper and run it around. It doesn't always work but a lot of times it does - I've used it with good success - and it's only $4.70 shipped.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/SealMate-Tool-The-Only-Tool-to-Fix-Leaking-Fork-Seals-COLOR-BLUE-/140818428402?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20c96eb1f2&vxp=mtr
 

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Im glad to hear you like the 15/47 even at that elevation. Im going to try it out for my blue ridge trip. I will have a 50T rear in one of the boxes incase it doesnt work well but for just road/gravel im thinking it will be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Small's, if I was going on that trip I would do exactly the same thing. I was taught to use high RPM only when I needed the extra power available there. You don't need a lot of power when running on flat roads and you CERTAINLY don't need them on down-hills. On up-hills you have gears. Fourth gear is just a bit lower with a 15/47 than fifth is with 14/50. Nothing at all wrong with running in 4th whenever you need to. Even 3rd is OK if the road is tight and steep. Dropping down to third is unlikely to be for a long time, anyway.



I have a dyno chart in front of me from the Feb. 2010 edition of Motorcycle Consumer News. That magazine ran a test of a 2010 TW. Peak torque was 9.14 lb. ft. at 7000 RPM.



Peak horsepower was 13.17 hp at 8000 RPM. The rev-limiter is set at 10,250RPM, but it's ridiculous to run it near there since both torque and horsepower fall off rapidly after their peaks.



There may be some variations for different model years, but in general, running above 8000-8500 RPM makes less torque, less HP and increases wear on the engine.



With the 15/47 you will have a more relaxed cruising speed on level roads, and won't be as limited in speed on down-hills where traffic usually speeds up. That is a safety factor.



If anyone doubts what I'm saying, just ask any top mechanic or mechanical engineer this question:



" In a non-racing gasoline engine making peak horsepower at 8000 RPM, would you expect less breakage and a longer life at 8000 RPM or 10,000 RPM?"



NOW, I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD NEVER USE 14/50 OR SOME SIMILAR GEARING. Run whatever you like in the dirt where you don't need to keep up with cars.



In some cases a 14/47 or 15/50 might be a good compromise, particularly if some dirt riding was involved. I could live with either of those ratios.



On the highway I doubt I could live with a 14/50 for longer than it takes to get to the nearest dealer. 8=)
 

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Small's, if I was going on that trip I would do exactly the same thing. I was taught to use high RPM only when I needed the extra power available there. You don't need a lot of power when running on flat roads and you CERTAINLY don't need them on down-hills. On up-hills you have gears. Fourth gear is just a bit lower with a 15/47 than fifth is with 14/50. Nothing at all wrong with running in 4th whenever you need to. Even 3rd is OK if the road is tight and steep. Dropping down to third is unlikely to be for a long time, anyway.



I have a dyno chart in front of me from the Feb. 2010 edition of Motorcycle Consumer News. That magazine ran a test of a 2010 TW. Peak torque was 9.14 lb. ft. at 7000 RPM.



Peak horsepower was 13.17 hp at 8000 RPM. The rev-limiter is set at 10,250RPM, but it's ridiculous to run it near there since both torque and horsepower fall off rapidly after their peaks.



8=)


I didn't know T-Dubs had rev limiters . Am I misreading this ?
 

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[quote I have a dyno chart in front of me from the Feb. 2010 edition of Motorcycle Consumer News. That magazine ran a test of a 2010 TW. Peak torque was 9.14 lb. ft. at 7000 RPM.



Peak horsepower was 13.17 hp at 8000 RPM. The rev-limiter is set at 10,250RPM, but it's ridiculous to run it near there since both torque and horsepower fall off rapidly after their peaks.



There may be some variations for different model years, but in general, running above 8000-8500 RPM makes less torque, less HP and increases wear on the engine.



[/quote]

You really don't need a dyno to determine this, you can feel the power drop at around 7500-8000 RPM. Rotate the throttle sharply and feel the power as she unwinds nicely with steady acceleration and then she hits a point (around 7500 for me) where the engine continues to unwind but it seems to be doing nothing - shift just before that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Koonercat, nice catch. I was and still am quoting off the MCN article. On page 24 it mentions "its 10250 rpm redline" while on the specifications chart on page 27 it lists the "rev limiter setting" at 10250 rpm. I'm not sure which is correct, but they do agree on the RPM.
 

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My buddy just bought a nice 05 tw tonight and he brought it by for me to ride it. It has a 40 tooth rear sprocket. I got it to 71mph in fourth and about the same in 5th with no wind and on flat ground. It sounded so peacefull at 60mph. Yes im sure 5th wont pull hills/head wind but 4th is close to the 14/50's 5th gear. If i was just riding roads/gravel i would go with something like that maybe 42 tooth. But than again im only 150lbs and live in indiana which is pretty low on elevation.
 

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When you installed it, did you do anything to compensate for a height change?



Thanks


One of the things that you will probably notice on your first road ride is that the extra rolling diameter brings your speedometer a bit closer to the truth.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I didn't notice the change in ride height, if any. I did notice the increased weight of the bigger tire on paved roads but it was not a problem.



The biggest difference initially was on pavement at speeds below 10mph. It did not seem as stable at following a line. Above that speed it turned in slightly slower than with the OEM tire but was more stable than the OEM. Gyroscopic effect of the heavier tire, I guess.



After the first few minutes I never noticed the difference on pavement. Off-road was all good.
 
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