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Discussion Starter #1
I'm not sure if you guys have seen this website but it appears that your PB has gotten way to popular. Watch the two videos in this link and you will see what's going on. I think the writing is on the wall to end the motorized vehicles in the Barrens.

[video]https://pinebarrensundersiege.com/[/video]

I see both sides of this issue. Back in the early 90s my brother and I bought Honda Four Wheelers and the fun began. We own a good bit of property in WV and we made trails everywhere. Through the woods, streams, hill climbs, around our lakes and all around our fields. My three teenage son rode and we invited friends to join us in the fun but after three years we noticed the toll it took on our land. We cut so many trails above my brothers lake that the water always stayed muddy. The rain washed gullies in all our trails and around our Christmas Tree fields making it difficult to turn our mowers around. We were destroying our land so we graded all the trails and planted grass. Now we just putt around carful not to tear it up again.
 

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I was a member of a hunting club that owned and leased almost 3,000 acres here in the Catskills mountains. The property was loaded with old wood roads, stage coach paths and even a very old highway that ran through it 70 years ago. All was fine for a few years until all the members who had kids and friends all decided it was a moto sport haven. During the hunting season we limited the use to hunting only and ATVs going to and from various sections but in non hunting seasons members could ride and bring friends. It became a zoo. The trails were torn up and lots of new trails were made by riders exploring plus the wet spots got torn up bad and impassable from so many playing in them. Then one invited guest got hurt pretty bad and decided to file a law suit. That ended all the non hunting riding on the property and we had to gate it off so no non members could go on it.

I don't think that ATVs or MCs do that much damage when driven responsibly taking care to not trash the trails. That gets out of hand real quick from the constant and irresponsible pounding from recreational riding. Mud pits might be fun for the ATV riders but not so much for the hunters paying the bills who want to get in and out along the trails that were there for many, many years with no real damage. We hated being spoil sports but the trails got trashed pretty bad and it simply had to stop.

GaryL
 

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I would have to say these problems started with 4 wheelers and now the technology that goes into all of these types of off-road vehicles has surpassed what the land can bare. People buy these machines that are basicly Roto tillers in the woods and just rip and tear totally unconscious of the effects there having on the earth. I may sound a little like a tree hugger when I say that but when your a farmer and land owner...you get it!!!
 

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I would have to say these problems started with 4 wheelers and now the technology that goes into all of these types of off-road vehicles has surpassed what the land can bare. People buy these machines that are basicly Roto tillers in the woods and just rip and tear totally unconscious of the effects there having on the earth. I may sound a little like a tree hugger when I say that but when your a farmer and land owner...you get it!!!
I do understand. The big trucks have made the mud holes so deep a bike or quad can't get through. That and the fact if you do build a single track trail they will come along and tear it up along with any trees or brush that gets in their way. I've tried to tell them about shooting them self in the foot but they just don't care.
 

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When I ride my TW off road I go with one simple attitude, Leave no tracks"

I do get the entire idea of having fun while riding but that fun for a few ends up getting the places to do it closed to all ORVs. When you are out riding and off your own property and get hurt it is no ones fault but your own but you will always find a lawyer willing to file a law suit. People are always their own worst enemies and I don't have much sympathy in any of this. We had to trailer in 55 gallon drums to pick up all the trash left behind by our own members and their friends and we gave them all fair warning long before we closed the property.

GaryL
 

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This is how it should be done...

I received this for helping to run the largest grass roots cleanup ever at Wharton State Forest. We did this for years.. Then They came.. more later.. YES I have opinions.. ;)

Voluteer recognition.jpg
 

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I would have to say these problems started with 4 wheelers and now the technology that goes into all of these types of off-road vehicles has surpassed what the land can bare. People buy these machines that are basicly Roto tillers in the woods and just rip and tear totally unconscious of the effects there having on the earth. I may sound a little like a tree hugger when I say that but when your a farmer and land owner...you get it!!!
You do not sound like a tree hugger. You sound responsible. For years my Cousin would let no one hunt on her farm as people would make promises and not keep them such as putting fences back up. tearing up her wheat fields. So when she offered up her place to go hunting this last year to myself, my Brother-in-law, and my Dad. We took her advice and cautions very seriously.
 

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This is how it should be done...

I received this for helping to run the largest grass roots cleanup ever at Wharton State Forest. We did this for years.. Then They came.. more later.. YES I have opinions.. ;)

View attachment 30996
Good on you Bro... Unfortunately there are just enough morons that threaten everybody's ability to enjoy motorized fun.
 

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One nice fellow put a bunch of trash cans out and promised to pick them up if people would use them. The azz hats just ran them over and crushed them. Needless to say he did not do it again. Having tried and failed to talk any sense into the drunken fools I gave up and sold my quad as the amount of stupid became too much.
 

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Sorry to hear that X. Even as a kid riding around if my family (That meant anybody older then me) would have had me tasting dirt for abusing other peoples areas. I get why the environmentalist are getting things shut down. There does not seem to be a way of policing ourselves. One reason I got the TW and sold the DR because it makes riding less damaging to the places I enjoy.
 

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Throwing broken glass into streams kids were playing in.Seeing how big a tree they can push down or tie a snatch strap to and uproot. Setting their trucks on a nice jump and tire grinding it away. Setting a fire and then spinning doughnuts through it. As I said the stupid level became to much. Then they bitch when a fence goes up!!
 

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I used to own an ATV and was part of a club that moved to a much larger lease, I believe it was at least 1600 acres covering 2 or 3 small mountains. Had to increase membership limit to afford the lease. A lot of ass clowns got memberships. The group of guys I rode with became good friends and we enjoyed all the trails. But whenever we brought up at meetings that the trails need regular maintenance so they don't erode away (especially hills) the officers of the club (who mostly didn't ride much, just hung out in the parking lot and socialized) would shoot us down. They spent money on stuff for the parking area so people could hang out and picnic there but didn't do much for the trails. Eventually they bought a skid steer and an old semi trailer to house it, (we proposed the skid steer like a year earlier and got shot down). They were getting huge loads of mulch for free, which was spread on the trails near the parking lot that get the most traffic, which was great because they absorbed the damage. They'd wash away over time so had to be reapplied. But the hill climbs in the trails were never taken care of and became very eroded and dangerous. My son was old enough to ride on the back with me and it was too dangerous for my comfort for bringing him so I did not renew my membership, and slowly my friends let theirs expire too. It's a shame because it was such a beautiful piece of property. Whenever there were trail work parties it was always the same half a dozen people who cared enogh to show up, pretty sad out of 150+ members.
 

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That's always the way.. sad. Most all clubs are or get like that when they expand.

I used to own an ATV and was part of a club that moved to a much larger lease, I believe it was at least 1600 acres covering 2 or 3 small mountains. Had to increase membership limit to afford the lease. A lot of ass clowns got memberships. The group of guys I rode with became good friends and we enjoyed all the trails. But whenever we brought up at meetings that the trails need regular maintenance so they don't erode away (especially hills) the officers of the club (who mostly didn't ride much, just hung out in the parking lot and socialized) would shoot us down. They spent money on stuff for the parking area so people could hang out and picnic there but didn't do much for the trails. Eventually they bought a skid steer and an old semi trailer to house it, (we proposed the skid steer like a year earlier and got shot down). They were getting huge loads of mulch for free, which was spread on the trails near the parking lot that get the most traffic, which was great because they absorbed the damage. They'd wash away over time so had to be reapplied. But the hill climbs in the trails were never taken care of and became very eroded and dangerous. My son was old enough to ride on the back with me and it was too dangerous for my comfort for bringing him so I did not renew my membership, and slowly my friends let theirs expire too. It's a shame because it was such a beautiful piece of property. Whenever there were trail work parties it was always the same half a dozen people who cared enogh to show up, pretty sad out of 150+ members.
 

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We also had a SxS rider with MS who was mentally unbalanced and on meds who always took the side of the officers and was always threatening to sue everyone. He basically drove everyone out.
 

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I was on the BOD of the largest gun club in the NE (as far as I can tell) and I've seen it all. Been there done that, in fact I was doing most all maintenance or handling the contracts. The government mandated lead cleanup broke my back along with a liberal BELIEVE IT OR NOT, new president who was a spendthrift you know what. That got old but it took 5 years, just a member now, no stress..... ahhhh the joy!
 

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I have never been to the Pine Barrens, but from the images on the website, there appears to be a huge amount of damage. Can't say how widespread it is, but it's easy to see why people are upset.

HOWEVER, the "all or nothing" attitude and blame that was placed completely on the ORV users was heavy-handed and wrong. There's plenty of people to blame for dumping construction debris, old boats, fire pits and and general trashed camping areas that have nothing to do with 4x4s, atvs or dirt bikes. General contractors too cheap to take trash to the landfill, hikers and campers out to have a good time, and ORV users are ALL to blame, not just one group. The website was dramatic, emotional rhetoric against a small segment of users.

And let's be honest, the Park Service shares a large part of the blame for poor management too. They need to step up and maintain the trails and monitor how they are used. If all of the paths are being destroyed, then confine the use of the park to a relatively small area or rotate areas to ensure no single spot is overused. Set up mud paths specifically for the 4x4s. Set aside technical courses for the ATVs. Set aside a range of single tracks for dirt bikes. This isn't club land we're talking about - it's public land for EVERYONE to use. We all pay taxes to cover the cost of this type of management. It's about time we reap the benefits of our taxes instead of letting a vocal minority spin their drama into excluding people they don't like.
 

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Why I hate utvs and big mudder quads cause they tear up the trails. I also wonder if any one sees the communist model there adopting for off road preservation n wildlife only no motorized vehicles.I'm all for saving the environment but this zero tolerance communist model is ridiculous. Yes it is communist look up land use for soviet union an germany during cold war etc.
 

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If they close the pine barrens I'm out I got a big kid rock fu for this state, we got a heroin n out of control tax mismanagement of our roads and infrastructure problem,tax the shit out of us,half of us can't afford to live here anymore.fix them problems 1st.I'm also tired of hearing the rich yuppies whining,you knew there was woods and ,race tracks no one told ya dumbass to move to a racetrack that was there 50 years before you moved in.I swear if I could get a job doing same thing I do now in sc for 18 to 22 bucks an hour I'll be gone.
 
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