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Discussion Starter #1
I really sympathized with Dubsters misadventures with the irate codger and dogs. While innocent of any wrongdoing Dubster's story brought to mind different circumstances where we need to ride respectful of other's rights and to not trespass. As a group statistically we TW folk seem fairly mature and responsible. As a teenager I was not and figured I could get away with sneaking into places I knew I should not be. "Gee Mister, I wasn't hurting anything" ruled the day, after all I was just trying to have fun, what's the big deal?

Well now as an adult property owner who cleans up after trespassers I sing a different story. Maybe I am just cranky today after driving by a nearby property where once again freshly repaired fences have been freshly cut despite the owners numerous signs and repairs to obviously keep people off his land. I wonder do these fence-cutters really think they have a right to trespass? Most must know they are doing wrong.

The invaders I catch are usually contrite and almost invariably amazingly ignorant of how they managed to git on my land. So I photo them and their vehicles and let them out with a warning.Then I backtrack them to find and fix a variety of cut fence wire, cut locks, cut chains, cut gate-posts or torn-out gate and posts. Some say I should be really meaner, pointing out that if I cant keep them from breaking in once I can at least scare them into not returning .So I have to play the hard-ass with a few.So far most are not repeat offenders. One group of all-night-long-lost 4-wheelers even offered to return after a sleep and repair their damage( they knocked on my door at dawn hat in hand reluctant to break a second gate to order to leave). While their politeness earned them a reprieve each of these other break-ins left me feeling violated and often with a bit of repair work to be done.

Don't know why I am ranting and rambling, after all I never saw a TW mis-behaving. Maybe this is just a reminder that it is up to maintain good public relations, to tread as lightly on others rights as our bikes tread lightly on mother earth.
 

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Fred,

Great post! Being from WI, I value and respect one's property greatly, as the vast majority of land there is privately owned. After moving to NV nearly 8 years ago, I've greatly grown to appreciate the great amount of BLM or National Forest that both NV and Northern CA offer. Yet, I have not forgotten my prior values that I grew up with.

I really want to chime in and start typing the story I've recently shared with you, regarding the man who is wrongfully protecting land beyond his, yet I wish not to digress from your topic. I shall await a better time, in which I have the results from a completed mission.

Hey, if you ever want a hand with repairs, I'm totally offering. I've built and maintained a many fences.
-Adam
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Adam, you're a good man . Knew that the day you didn't laugh ( at least not too loudly) when I ice crashed. Adam has a good story to tell sometime from a different perspective of these issues.
 

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I have the Hunt/Fish micro card installed on my gps as well. It allows me to interpret that No Trespassing sign. Mr. Rancher is not above posting a sign on a gate leading to BLM land. Its not his to post, but if you can't tell where the public land is, you can't tell which signs to believe. Sometimes the No Trespassing means, don't get off the road, but you can still ride through on the road. Sometimes that sign pertains to a tiny 20 acre plot around a windmill, but the road continues on to 1000s of acres beyond.
Anybody who would cut a fence is a moral cripple. Common sense says if you find a gate closed, close it, and if you find it open, leave it open.
My standard greeting when confronted by Mr. Rancher is "If I'm somewhere I should n't be, I'll leave". On the other hand if you want me to give you a call when I see someone shooting near your cows, give me your phone number. Your cows are safer when I'm there than they are when no one but the goofus boys are there. Ride on. Tom
 

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I share pretty much the same sentiments except that here in NY we don't have a BLM or National Forest service. What we do have is a State Department of Environmental Conservation or DEC. My tax dollars support and buy every piece of vacant land that come to the block and then they immediately close these vast parcels of State Land to everyone but a tiny minority of young well equipped hikers and such. No motorized vehicles at all and no way for any older codgers to get back in to the wild forests our tax dollars bought and support. Instead, we hire DEC officers who have the sole mission to keep us off our own lands. We pay loggers to log these properties and maintain perfectly good access and fire roads throughout yet we don't allow anyone but the loggers and the DEC to travel them. It is estimated that only about 3% of the residents of NY ever get to see 98% of the lands we own, paid for and continue to support through our tax dollars. I basically feel like every time I trespass on state owned land that I am being harassed for trespassing on my own property. New York State can't afford to be a single acre of land without my tax dollars! We are talking about millions upon millions of state owned acres all off limits to 98% of the people that live in and pay taxes to this state. They can kiss my ass!

GaryL
 

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I share pretty much the same sentiments except that here in NY we don't have a BLM or National Forest service. What we do have is a State Department of Environmental Conservation or DEC. My tax dollars support and buy every piece of vacant land that come to the block and then they immediately close these vast parcels of State Land to everyone but a tiny minority of young well equipped hikers and such. No motorized vehicles at all and no way for any older codgers to get back in to the wild forests our tax dollars bought and support. Instead, we hire DEC officers who have the sole mission to keep us off our own lands. We pay loggers to log these properties and maintain perfectly good access and fire roads throughout yet we don't allow anyone but the loggers and the DEC to travel them. It is estimated that only about 3% of the residents of NY ever get to see 98% of the lands we own, paid for and continue to support through our tax dollars. I basically feel like every time I trespass on state owned land that I am being harassed for trespassing on my own property. New York State can't afford to be a single acre of land without my tax dollars! We are talking about millions upon millions of state owned acres all off limits to 98% of the people that live in and pay taxes to this state. They can kiss my ass!

GaryL
What Gary Sez is what the current spate of political hacks and bureauRats want to do to all "free land"....our founding fathers are no doubt spinning in their graves...or trying dig themselves out, so they can find a Rope, Noose, and Tree, to Hang the Bastards that have done this to US{A}:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The concept of trespass on state owned land just seems so wrong to me, how did we let this happen? I am all for reasonable environmental stewardship. However Gary's point about logging companies being permitted liberal harvests of public resources while denying other historical multiple users access reeks of hipocracy shown by our policy-makers. I am afraid we individual citizens will never have the influence on policy making as we should have in a democracy. We get overshadowed by lobbyists and PACs .
 

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I have a no-trespassing sign in my driveway along with 2 other signs saying "private property" and "No Turnaround". About a month ago, my dog began barking and I walked outside to see a guy about 40, on a bicycle petting him. He was telling me how friendly my dog was. I asked him VERY politely if I could help him. He said "no, I'm just looking around". He then proceded to ride down the driveway about 200 feet and turned and came by my house. I stopped him and asked him if he had seen the signs, to which he replied "yeah, so what?" I told him that this was my yard and that I had these signs and fence up for a reason. At this point, he asked me if I had a gun and was I going to shoot him. He began cussing me and told me that most dogs are friendlier than their owners. All of a sudden, he rode off. I fenced my yard and posted the signs because I have 6 little grandchildren who come by quite a bit and my dog is big and I don't want him causing trouble. I am a very nice and polite person but this guy did not seem to care. I know that I have gotten a little off subject but after reading Fred's post, I needed to vent. Oh well!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Vent away Rusty, you bring up good points and it is on topic. Ever wonder what people like the bicyclist would say if you asked them for their address so you could walk around their yard, house or apartment before resuming the discussion of property rights? Bet he would reverse his position if situation were reversed.Your restraint is admirable, don't want to piss off a crazy who decides his mission is to make you suffer for pointing out the error of his ways.
 

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Don't even get me started. At least in Tennessee, my sister is married to the sheriff's brother. Everything is posted. Charges will be pressed. I have a tow truck and your vehicle will be removed from my property per pertinent state regulations.

In North Carolina, my neighbor is a deputy who has permission to hunt, fish, cut firewood, and ride ORVs. Don't let him catch you on his land or mine.

In Texas, I don't lock the doors. Nothing there to steal, anyway, just an empty pipe underground with a door on each end. Seems the peeps passing by use the shelter but treat the property with respect. They even burn the trash.
 

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Having fought to get legal riding areas in Maryland and Florida heres a fact learned the hard way. You don't own the land! That's right it's owned by the state and can do whatever they want with it. The people of this country think they can own property. Uhhh...sorry no you can't. The best we can do is pay rent to the state or local goverment. If you think I'm wrong try not paying your property tax and see how long you will be ALLOWED to stay.
 
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