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Discussion Starter #1
I recently got a T-dub about a month ago
Woo Hoo!



I've been tootling around on it and having a blast.

We went camping Labor day weekend up near Georgia pass which is between Fraiser and Breckenridge Co. Anyways climbing some of those hills was a bit of a struggle
climbing over boulders and sharp rocks was a bit nerve wracking but I did make it to the top and my poor T-dub earned a spot on the lift for her victory dance. My delema is that I don't know if it is my inexperience with this bike or the bike tires, I bounce like I'm on a big red bouncing ball (like the ones with handles some folks had when they were a kid) when I start to get thrown there is no getting her back, I must of fell 1/2 dozen times climbing up the mountain and a couple of times coming down. I feel like the bike is riding on top of the terrain and not digging in.



We went again this weekend and did a bit better, I hit the ultimate biker mogels and was having a blast, I hit one came up, then down, then I really don't know what happen next but everyone behind me said the tire just bounced like a balloon and you were down and slid over 10 ft
, I'm still limping and the poor poor T-dub took a terrible beating although I broke her fall when I let her land on my body...
that is the pain I am feeling all over at this moment.

Anyways is the T-dub not made for this terrain, I can see that she would be a blast in the sand and some great fire roads etc. but the rocky terrain here in Colorado..I don't know, did I mess up and get me the wrong bike? which now needs some TLC just on the front accessory stuff she landed on that first before landing on me.



Ok sorry to ramble, I'm just confused. I suppose I can get alot of info here on the site, so your input is well needed for this new T-dub owner.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I failed to mention after the first day, we went home and changed the sprocket and chain so I can have some lower gear for the climbing.
 

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Congrats on the TW and welcome to the forum.



Some questions to help get you better answers:



What tires are you running?



What tire pressure were you running?



What's the condition of your front forks (what year is the bike and what maintenance has been done to the forks)?



How is the rear shock set up?



How much weight is the bike carrying?
 

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Suspect lots of folks will get involved. Retmotor asked some great questions.



" I hit the ultimate biker mogels and was having a blast"



Here is a quote from your post. Perhaps "ultimate biker mogels" was just a figure of speech, but I feel inclined to share with you my opinion. The TW is far from the "ultimate" mogel bike. Without question, opinions will differ, though likely they will point you in pretty much the same direction; the TW is a competent trail bike, much beyond that can lead to frustration.



To truly (my opinion) enjoy the bike, you may need to drop down a couple of notches on your expectations. If that is a significant upset, consider selling the rig for 'good' money and buying more of an 'Enduro' or 'Moto-cross' rig. The alternative may be that you trash the TW and as well continue to be be frustrated. Again, just an opinion. Gerry
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Retmotor,

they are the stock tires, I picked up the bike from a guy up in the mountains it only had 500 miles on it, it is an 08 that sat around for short distant putts to the store and back.

air down to 20 in the back, it did feel better with the lower air after the first day.



Not sure if the front fork oil has been changed, the shocks are stock, it wasn't bottoming out as far as I felt.

The bike was just carrying me.....5'2 petite female.




Thanks for the video, made me feel a bit better about my riding, that is pretty much what we went through, the jagged rocks are a bit nerve racking as well as hurt when I fall on them.


I guess practice practice practice.



@ Mrgizmo, yes it was a figure of speech, I enjoyed the whompdee doos but know I can't ride them like the big boys and really have no plans too, they are just fun.
We are riding mostly on trails but the trails are gnarley here unlike the ones I use to ride in calif in my much younger years. The thought did run across my mind, did I make a mistake in purchasing the dub, which I really like because it has great reach for me, but I will have to replace the plastic on the front
after landing on me after the whompdee doo with mudd we did not land gracefully. Yes this old gal hurts today.
but well well worth it, I got back up dusted off and off I went for more.
 

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OK, well figure that suspension is pretty much set up to accomodate 300 pounds so no surprise it is throwing you around. The suspension can be tuned somewhat. I go about 180 pounds in my riding gear and I've aired down to 12/10 psi (front/rear) although I'm not sure I would go that low on a trail with all those menacing rocks looking to pinch a tube and bend a rim.



The stock front tire is not popular for loose off-road stuff. A lot of guys will switch out the fronts in favor of improved traction. There's some threads on this forum regarding tire pressure, suspension, and front tires. If I get on the computer tonight (I'm on a tablet), I'll see what I can dig up.
 

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I have also had good luck with the tire pressures mentioned by Retmotor. Boy girl if your adventure included sections like those shown on the Rubicon videos, geezzz
. That stuff is kinda to scary for me. Have fun, stay safe and think about loosing that front tire, but in that really rocky stuff it may not be the liability that I found it to be in loose dirt. Gerry
 

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Discussion Starter #9




Thanks guys, your help means alot, I was really disappointed in myself thinking

"I could ride" but really "sucked at it" actually the guys I went with were pretty nice with there support and were even more surprised that I picked it up on my own, I figure they were all being nice (cuz that's what friends do
).

I will have a couple of things to do to the bike before going out again (
like next weekend) I will have to find out why the speedometer stopped working and straighten out the blinker on the right side, the scratches well that's part of the game, and front rim for better traction
.



here is her boo boo



:



me









some terrain



 

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Follow, I think you will be OK with a bit more time, some patience and a few minor tweaks. First, 20 psi is MUCH too high for your weight, IMO. That is a big reason why it bounces so much. The tires are a big part of the suspension on these bikes, and too much air will have the results you experienced. Retmotor mentioned 12/10 psi, and with your light weight I think that is about right. Particularly if you are riding at trail-riding speeds.



First, what kind of bikes and riders are you intending to keep up with? This is critical. Looking at your second picture, I assume that it is one of the easier sections. A bunch of guys on enduro or motocross bikes would often go through something like that at 30-45mph or more. A T-Dub would be uncomfortable at much beyond 20-30, and even then you'd need to dodge the bigger rocks. Pick the easiest line by going from side to side.(you probably know this)



Second, by "biker mogels" I assume that you mean "whoops" (whoop-de-doos) which is the biker term.8=) Moguls or whoops, on skiis or a bike, staying upright on them at speed is an advanced technique. The fast guys on the enduro bikes can skim over just the top of the whoops without dropping down into the lower parts between them. That takes speed, technique, and a much more expensive and better suspension than the T-Dub possesses. On a T-Dub I just drop my speed and ride up and down over them. Sometimes you can avoid doing that by just riding a bit to one side or another where the trail is more level.



IF YOU INTEND TO RIDE AT SPEED OVER WHOOPS, YOU DO INDEED HAVE THE WRONG BIKE. A word of caution. People can get badly hurt riding whoops, even with the right bike.



I'll wait for your answers before saying anything more.
 

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I will also suggest lowering air pressure. The last time I went on a trail, I had 12-14 pounds and it did well in the rocks like you have in your picture. I just got back from a ride that was mostly pavement, so I had 20 psi front and back. When I did take a side road that was dirt and rock, it was very rough. Sort of tossed me around when I got into some bigger rocks. I turned around and got back on the gravel road. I usually use 15 or so for a nice combination pressure, as I am often back and forth between pavement and gravel and dirt. BTW, I am around 190 with gear, and last time had 30 lbs of gear on top of that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well on the second day we lowered the air to about 11 on the rear, I suppose my expectations will have to change. But I am looking into changing the front as suggested. In full gear I'm probably about 135+ and I'm a very middle aged female (ssshhh almost 50).




Yes those Whoops can hurt, I flew threw one and came way up so I was told and the back tire came down nicely it was the front that decided not to (my inexperience I'm sure) It came down all right and we flipped and flipped, it landed on me, they said I slid for 12 feet and it was impressive and then I laid there for what seem like 10 minutes, I got up and limped to the poor Tdub and accessed the damage, pushed some stuff back into place and slowly got back on and gave it another go.




the terrain is different all over, I just couldn't understand why I couldn't keep it up on the first day, tire and me. Second day=fustration, I just need to keep going at it, I really love the size of this bike, its the first dual sport that I felt comfortable on and the weight of it is excellent even I can pick it up.



more terrain:





the terrain changes depending on elevation and which side of the mountain your on, this shot was too steep for the Tdub, however I just had the sprocket and changed before I took her out this last weekend and she actually climbed a bit easier and coming down the mountain was much nicer with that low low gear.





Yup you nailed it on the other riders bikes, here are some of there bikes, also a quad.



 

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There are some threads on the rear shock and on the front forks, but I couldn't find what I thought I had seen before. The clip on the shock can be moved and that should make a subtle difference.



Ouch, regarding the scratched cowling pic. Good job picking her up getting back on the trail again. Looks like a neat area to ride.



You're probably already doing it, but standing up and using your legs to absorb the bumps will help some too.
 

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Follow, after seeing that last pic with all of the rocks, it's no wonder that a T Dub with too much air in the tires had trouble. First of all, the original front tire won't grip those rocks very well. It will deflect to the side. You probably learned that very quickly. There are better tires available, but that's not the entire problem.



Going over big rocks and ledges is mostly about a lot of suspension travel and going fast enough to avoid being deflected. Most of those enduro and motocross bikes have close to a foot of suspension travel at both ends. They can soak up the impact of an 8" rock without using more than 2/3 of the available travel. The rider won't even feel it. A T-Dub on the other hand has about half of that amount of travel. Some additional cushioning is available from the big tires, but they need to be soft to work as suspension. Yours were much too hard, so when you went over the 8" rocks your 6 inches of travel was not enough and your tires were too hard to help. Result? You went backside over teakettle.



A better front tire and lower tire pressures should help a lot, but work up to speed gradually. You will NEVER be able to go quite as fast over that kind of terrain as a full-on enduro can go.



The bad news about the enduros is that to get all of that suspension travel they have a seat that is sky-high. Most of them run from 36" to 38" from the ground. Hard for you to touch the ground without carrying a ladder. An enduro/motocrosser can be lowered a bit by reducing the travel a couple of inches and the seat can also be cut down. Several hundred dollars worth of mods.



Enduro bikes are usually more top-heavy and also need to go faster to work well. A T-Dub is more stable at a slower speed.



I think you can get the T-Dub up to "respectable" speed fairly easily, but if you want to run with the fast riders you need another bike. And probably a good supply of pain meds. We hope it works for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Wow you nailed it about deflect, I did mention to someone on the ride that it would throw me in a different direction than I intended, the response was to weight the peg more (I thought I was).



At this early in the game I think anyone I go with can wait at the top of the mountain for me, I thought more about it last night and my competitive streak needs to be patient and mellow out.

The T-dub was a good choice, it has a good seat height for my 27" inseam and it takes falls like a champ (bounces really good
).



I understand top heavy bikes, one of my street bikes is a Honda ST and a very impressive bike, I get alot of comments that I can ride that bike.
 

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Follow, I think you have it figured out. Make a few simple changes, back off slightly and let the speed come, as much as possible, from seat time and experience.



Don't feel pressured to keep up with the fast guys. Lots of them have been riding dirt since they got out of diapers, and their bikes fit them better than they would fit you.



In most riding groups, the really fast guys don't mind waiting a few minutes for a slower rider. They will wait at a trail junction and BS about the ride until you arrive. The downside is that once you arrive, they usually take off again. They are well rested and you either move out without a rest break or get left way behind.
Just raise your hand if they look antsy and ask them for a couple minutes of rest.



The one thing the fast guys don't like is to have someone in the group who is constantly over their heads and crashing. That can ruin a ride for everyone, either through a broken bike or rider. Better to keep a steady pace than hold up the group for a longer time post-crash.



It's impressive that you can handle an ST on the street. That is one of Honda's all-time-best Sport Tourers. It is a heavy bike, but due to its engine configuration it is not nearly as top-heavy as one might think.



If you keep at it, you will eventually get the TW up to an acceptable speed and be happy with it, or you will need to think about another bike. That decision will be up to you. I think the TW will work for you, but if you want more, let us know. Most of us have been through something like this before, and can make some recommendations on other bikes.



Just remember, even with a faster enduro/motocrosser modified to fit you as much as possible, you will still be at a disadvantage compared to the really fast guys. You will be faster, but they will still be waiting for you. Just not as long.
 

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One final thought. I assume that you are covered from head to foot in good protective gear. If not, get some immediately. Running shoes, a t-shirt and jeans don't cut it at speed; even on a T-Dub. It is amazing how great it is to take a nasty fall and bounce right back up, unhurt.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Oh Yeah!!!
It's a good thing too.















It's a good thing i had the elbow pad and knee pads on. The weird part was the new boots, I know they protected my legs but I think the heaviness of them made it hyperextend my leg when I fell, but they sure kept my ankle from breaking after the bike landed on it, so that's a really really good thing. I still need to get the chest protector.
 

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You're right about the boots. They do that.
 

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Follow,



Great story and photo's. When I ride with other folks, usually they have to wait on me! Maybe that's why I ride alone a lot!




Good thing about replacement parts. They can make the TW look like new again . . . mostly!
You on the other hand. . . be careful!



Take care and have fun riding.
 
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