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How do you guys feel about carb mods and the warranty? Run it factory for a year out jet and shim now?
If it aint broke and is running fine then you don't fix it! Usually from the factory they are adjusted far too lean just to pass the emissions tests and particularly in Ca. and Az.. If your plugs have a sun tan white boy color and they run smooth then leave them alone. Yes, many have found that the pilot screw out between 2-2.5 turns is the sweet spot but just as Rocky said, they are all not created equal.
We will all be very interested to here the autopsy results once your dealer gets to the bottom. Hope you do have an honest dealer who will stand behind you. Mine here would absolutely turn this repair in for the warranty reimbursement from Yamaha and then try to run some crap on me that I over revved it and it was my fault as he hands me the bill. That is why I would not give this dealer the sweat off my left peanut. I was the GM at just such a MC/ATV shop and told the owner to stuff it after 6 months because he had no business ever being in a customer oriented sales business.

GaryL
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Results are in! (long post sorry in advance) The service manager started the bike , still tapping, and opened the oil bleed for the tip end. NOTING! I was totally ready to blame the guy for the filter and boop it spit out a little was of some black gunk and on came the oil! Motor quieted right down ran fine. Pulled filter 4 hole as required. They have rode the bike cooled it adjusted bake clearance, rode more and have it two hot oil changes today. Oil looking good. I'm taking it back as is (no hard parts changed) and they have assured me that if any problem arise oil usage, valve train noises, smoke they will make it right by warranty or on the shops dime. what do you guys think?
 

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Well, that's an honest mistake-but not one that any mechanic who is working from experience or a shop manual should make. It clearly states a need to open the bleeder bolt (sic) in the manual. Your bike has a one year warranty and if you are comfortable with the repair and willing to accept the shop's offer, then "get it in writing". You may never have a problem with your TW-but you did buy a brand new one- so you have to decide based on your comfort level! The piston seized, maybe caused some cylinder scoring. At the very least-I would run a compression check.
 

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Unfortunately the damage done many not show up for a long time. If it was squealing and seized up, it DID do some damage. I'd want it taken apart and the top end rebuilt at least. TW's can go 40,000+ miles with the proper maintenance. Your's will probably end up needing rebuilt thousands of miles sooner. Will they warranty it then? I doubt it. I'd insist on a rebuild now. Just my 2 cents worth...
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Well, that's an honest mistake-but not one that any mechanic who is working from experience or a shop manual should make. It clearly states a need to open the bleeder bolt (sic) in the manual. Your bike has a one year warranty and if you are comfortable with the repair and willing to accept the shop's offer, then "get it in writing". You may never have a problem with your TW-but you did buy a brand new one- so you have to decide
based on your comfort level! The piston seized, maybe caused some cylinder scoring. At the
very least-I would run a compression check.
Good compression and never has smoked. As far as the "seize" goes with the compression and lack of smoke I'm thinking the cam bushing kept it from turning over as opposed to the ring to cylinder wall. Just my opinion though
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I think ride it and have fun. Congrats!!!
I hate to admit it but I'm feeling like risking it! If it runs good when I ride it tomorrow I'm probably taking it. I have big riding plans for the weekend with my son and wife and I'm not wanting to miss out. If the damage is severe I will be finding out sooner rather than later. As fast as knocking a few thousand miles off of 40000 mile expectation that's a risk I can live with
 

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At the end of the day, it is your money and your bike. Therefore it is your decision. However, I will offer my opinion since you asked (yes, we all have one, just like a******s). Anyhow, I have made MANY a bad decisions in my life and with my history of engines in cars, trucks, and definitely bikes. Some fun, some not so much. At this point in my life, if I were to buy a brand new bike from a dealer and this happened, I would not take the bike back without a full teardown and a lot of details in writing. That is just me. You may be fine, you may not be in 2,3,5,10 or 20k miles. Nobody can really know without a top end inspection and tear down. On a used bike that I picked up off a CL, I may be more likely to accept it, but on a brand new bike from a dealer who borked the first oil change, no way. Just my 2 cents. I also do not know your financial situation. That can carry some weight as well. Either way, I hope you enjoy your TW for many years to come no matter what. Cheers.
 

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At the end of the day, it is your money and your bike. Therefore it is your decision. However, I will offer my opinion since you asked (yes, we all have one, just like a******s). Anyhow, I have made MANY a bad decisions in my life and with my history of engines in cars, trucks, and definitely bikes. Some fun, some not so much. At this point in my life, if I were to buy a brand new bike from a dealer and this happened, I would not take the bike back without a full teardown and a lot of details in writing. That is just me. You may be fine, you may not be in 2,3,5,10 or 20k miles. Nobody can really know without a top end inspection and tear down. On a used bike that I picked up off a CL, I may be more likely to accept it, but on a brand new bike from a dealer who borked the first oil change, no way. Just my 2 cents. I also do not know your financial situation. That can carry some weight as well. Either way, I hope you enjoy your TW for many years to come no matter what. Cheers.

Totally agree. That is ridiculous to happen at/from a dealer especially with a pretty bulletproof bike like a TW200. No one is going to talk you out of it since you mentioned "willing to take a risk".
And this is a motorcycle forum, not a bunch of financial advisors. For me $5K plus or minus for something brand-new should never be a risk. Used, sure. But not new.
May the Yamaha Gods look down on you favorably. Ride Safe & Happy.
 

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If it was my bike or was here I would be stuffing this through the plug hole and inspecting the cylinder walls.

IMG_1916.JPG

GaryL
 

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Results are in! (long post sorry in advance) The service manager started the bike , still tapping, and opened the oil bleed for the tip end. NOTING! I was totally ready to blame the guy for the filter and boop it spit out a little was of some black gunk and on came the oil! Motor quieted right down ran fine. Pulled filter 4 hole as required. They have rode the bike cooled it adjusted bake clearance, rode more and have it two hot oil changes today. Oil looking good. I'm taking it back as is (no hard parts changed) and they have assured me that if any problem arise oil usage, valve train noises, smoke they will make it right by warranty or on the shops dime. what do you guys think?
I think if the engine seized from this there is already some damage to the top end and I'd be asking for a NEW top end, a new timing chain/gear set and accepting NOTHING less. If they say it wasn't their fault... that's fine, it is still under warranty and now is the time to have Yamaha replace it then. Let them and Yamaha duke it out, but I wouldn't accept anything less than a new top end on that engine... period. You need to think about the fact your top end was so seized up it was able to stop your crankshaft because the camshaft couldn't turn anymore. This is going to fail prematurely and way past the time you'll be able to make them or Yamaha take responsibility for it. This is absolutely the time to be an a**hole about it if they refuse. Later will be too late and you'll be out $$ when you shouldn't have to be. Just my opinion based on experience.

BTW... If you don't get anywhere with the garage toward getting it replaced, I'd be contacting Yamaha directly about it.

Not sure how long they had the bike there without your eyes on it, but as skeptical as I am, I personally would be thinking they went ahead and swapped a non hole filter for the one that has the holes for the top end. I'm a bit leary on it magically spitting out cooked oil and then all of a sudden oil flowing to the head just as he goes to show this to you unless they had swapped out filters. Either way... it was plugged, it caused an engine seizure via your camshafts, and there is no way damage and wear hasn't occurred and it's under warranty. I would be getting the top end replaced if I had to find the highest contact at Yamaha I was able to.

Sorry if that sounded like I was ranting, but I don't want to see you get hosed here.
 

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Any shop that would pass this off as easily as they did, doesn't deserve your business.
If an engine has seized...it NEEDS to be opened up and examined, at the very least. Pushing two oil changes through it does nothing.

As others have said...it might run "fine" now...but it has been set up for a MAJOR failure, much sooner than is normal for these engines...and as luck would have it, it will fail when the warranty has expired.

MtnMan75 said:
I personally would be thinking they went ahead and swapped a non hole filter for the one that has the holes for the top end. I'm a bit leary on it magically spitting out cooked oil and then all of a sudden oil flowing to the head just as he goes to show this to you unless they had swapped out filters.
This ^
 

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Lack of oil flow to the top end as evidenced by the "gunk" in the bleeder in the galley that feeds it, means the seizure was almost assuredly the sprocket side cam bushing. This has more load than the clutch side, and is the most distant point in the system from the pump. These bushings wear poorly even when oiled as intended. I pulled both out of my TW's, both with less than 3k miles, and there was noticeable wear and scoring on both, enough of a ridge you could feel it with your fingernail. Both had had regular oil changes. A generic 6005 ball bearing is an exact drop in replacement. Cost-cutting by Yamaha.

All the galley with the bleeder feeds is the camshaft- it has ports at either end for the bushings as well as on both lobes for the lifters. If it ran long enough without oil up there to seize up it very likely could have wiped the cam down, or introduced considerable play into the bushings even if it freed up and "seems okay" later. I would be insisting these components are inspected and honestly should be replaced.

The piston/jug and bottom end are supplied from a different oil galley and are in all likelihood fine.

Photo shows the bushing pulled from a TW with only about 2200 miles on it. You can see the spiral groove that is intended to carry oil that comes out of the port on the cam, but can also see the "rough" line of wear. There was a matching mark on the camshaft, although it was clear the bushing is a softer material, so the cam over that area just looked especially polished/clean.
IMG_20150912_215822942_HDR.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Lack of oil flow to the top end as evidenced by the "gunk" in the bleeder in the galley that feeds it, means the seizure was almost assuredly the sprocket side cam bushing. This has more load than the clutch side, and is the most distant point in the system from the pump. These bushings wear poorly even when oiled as intended. I pulled both out of my TW's, both with less than 3k miles, and there was noticeable wear and scoring on both, enough of a ridge you could feel it with your fingernail. Both had had regular oil changes. A generic 6005 ball bearing is an exact drop in replacement. Cost-cutting by Yamaha.

All the galley with the bleeder feeds is the camshaft- it has ports at either end for the bushings as well as on both lobes for the lifters. If it ran long enough without oil up there to seize up it very likely could have wiped the cam down, or introduced considerable play into the bushings even if it freed up and "seems okay" later. I would be insisting these components are inspected and honestly should be replaced.

The piston/jug and bottom end are supplied from a different oil galley and are in all likelihood fine.

Photo shows the bushing pulled from a TW with only about 2200 miles on it. You can see the spiral groove that is intended to carry oil that comes out of the port on the cam, but can also see the "rough" line of wear. There was a matching mark on the camshaft, although it was clear the bushing is a softer material, so the cam over that area just looked especially polished/clean.
View attachment 197748
Do ate you saying the bushing cam beer upgraded to this roller bearing direct fit?
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I appreciate everyone's advice and opinions. I have already taken the bike back. Didn't sign anything to accept it. I'm going to give it a chance to make some noise or use some oil and get what I can out of the rest of riding season. As of right now it's as quiet as it's ever been. I plan to ride it hard over the next couple months if I have any issues have no doubt I'll dig in on the next claim.

On the issue of oil filter. I understand that this is the go to only thing that can possibly be wrong on this bullet proof motor. But the community seems to widely agree that this failure consistently occurs at 15 to 25 miles without proper oiling. It took mine closer to 70 to start making noise! If what I've read on here is true it had to develop along the way right?
 

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The engine will absolutely have damage. There is just no way something can seize to the point of not turning without damage. The entire top end should be completely torn down for inspection and replacement of any part that shows ANY damage or wear. That includes the piston and cylinder.
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #38
The engine will absolutely have damage. There is just no way something can seize to the point of not turning without damage. The entire top end should be completely torn down for inspection and replacement of any part that shows ANY damage or wear. That includes the piston and cylinder.
Tom
Agreed. More my question is the previous posts that it must be the wrong pill filter regardless of what they say at the service department. I'm Judy curious if it would the consensus that the mileage timeline does not support it being the oil filter, based on countless posts that seem to consistently agree you can expect no more that 25 miles of life from that scenario.

While I do agree that damage was done I don't agree that it will take long to rear it's ugly head! Lol. That's why I'm going to enjoy it while I can in this season and go back for more extensive repair when it becomes a issue.

And as far as it could take upward of 20,000 miles to come home to roost as suggested in the previous post, if I go 20,000 with a 200cc air cooled single and THEN have to do the top end I will not be disappointed. Lol

If I came off dismissive of your opinions earlier it was not my intention, I believe someone suggested "no changing my mind". I came here as a creeper because in all my years of riding off road only I'd never even head of the tw200 until I took a motorcycle course! On here I came to learn they ate tough and quite trail capable. You guys know more about them than I probably ever will! Lol.

I am mechanically inclined in general, I make my living as a certified welder but my duties also include what we call "plant mechanic" so doing my own service work is not overt my head by any means. I made a call that I will have time to get this resolved before I'm out of warranty. This is a call I may very well live to regret (lord knows it won't be the first, or worst) but is a call I'm comfortable making.

That being said, I hope to become a active member of this forum. And who knows, if I have enough trouble with it I may just do a xt225 swap! Lol
 

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I don't think they can deny warranty for doing your own oil change. Unless they can prove you did something wrong.
Keep a log with receipts for oil and filters. Wesley has a Honda and they refused to fix it because he did not keep a log.
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