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Discussion Starter #1
I’ve been watching some videos on The MX Factory channel about riding off road and on dirt track. (Mostly wanting to learn to wheel this fat cat haha)

Interestingly he spoke about how when riding hard and accelerating riders don’t even use the clutch they simply shift up as they speed up and meet the shift point. Now I know these are generally race bikes he’s speaking of and the Tdub is far from that. The question being how dofferent is the clutch? When powering around a track or accelerating hard is there any damage in not using the clutch to shift up? I’ve of course accidentally downshifted like this which doesn’t feel good. But have been experimenting a little with slightly backing of the throttle and upshifting while accelerating. It feels fine and seems to keep the motor and transmission all heading more in the same direction whereas pulling the clutch to upshift feels like it’s breaking that momentum....

Wise elders of the forum please enlighten this young dubber!
 

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Other than to engage first gear, you can change gears without using the clutch if you are close to matching the RPMs ….. however my racing days are long gone when the bikes were rebuilt several times a season......and I have no need to accelerate hard or for that matter to deaccelerate hard ….so I use the clutch....as you pointed out, the TW is not exactly a high performance bike …... why abuse it ?

I am not sure but I think the owners manual says to use the clutch....but it is out in the garage and there are lions and tigers and bears out there in the night...so I am not going to go get it...:)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Other than to engage first gear, you can change gears without using the clutch if you are close to matching the RPMs ….. however my racing days are long gone when the bikes were rebuilt several times a season......and I have no need to accelerate hard or for that matter to deaccelerate hard ….so I use the clutch....as you pointed out, the TW is not exactly a high performance bike …... why abuse it ?

I am not sure but I think the owners manual says to use the clutch....but it is out in the garage and there are lions and tigers and bears out there in the night...so I am not going to go get it...
Hahaha i think i can confirm reading that. Mostly just interested. No need take on the creatures of the garage.

Also considered that they probably have to rebuild clutches trans and motors frequently and like u say why create that problem for yourself. Other than still being young and stupid haha
 

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My clutch cable broke one time out in the trails. I was able to get the bike on a slight down hill in neutral and once rolling I banged it into first gear and shifted quite a few times on the way back home without the clutch. It is not at all recommended but certainly is doable in the pinch. Matching the engine RPMs and shifting gears at the sweet point is the key to not damaging the tranny. Downshifting is harder on the gears than up shifting.

GaryL
 

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I had the same experience Gary...one of the other riders busted the clutch lever....and since I was the most experienced with clutch less shifting I rode it out....no problem..... but after that I always have a extra brake and clutch handle in my pack.

I have not been around a factory racing bike for decades but I do know that Honda had a ECU based Electronic Shift without Lift in their Indy cars ...no clutch….you could hear a backfire when the driver shifted …..I would not be surprised if that technology has transferred to the factory bikes where the stakes are high and cost is not a concern......I don't think you shift battery powered bikes .???
 

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I had the same experience Gary...one of the other riders busted the clutch lever....and since I was the most experienced with clutch less shifting I rode it out....no problem..... but after that I always have a extra brake and clutch handle in my pack.

I have not been around a factory racing bike for decades but I do know that Honda had a ECU based Electronic Shift without Lift in their Indy cars ...no clutch….you could hear a backfire when the driver shifted …..I would not be surprised if that technology has transferred to the factory bikes where the stakes are high and cost is not a concern......I don't think you shift battery powered bikes .???
Yeah no need for a transmission hardly. All the torque comes on at 1rpm. You could add gears but it would only be for extreme torque multiplication or incredibly high cruising speed. Most electric motors can get up to a few thousand RPM before the torque begins to drop off at all. It's a relatively flat, wide curve.
 

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I have not been around a factory racing bike for decades but I do know that Honda had a ECU based Electronic Shift without Lift in their Indy cars ...no clutch….
Is this what the "clutch master" setting in the Igni Tech CDI will do? Some kind of gizmo hooks to this wire to kill the engine while the gears are being changed?

Clutchmaster.jpg Clutchmaster1.jpg
 

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Not sure Elime. Gear selection is a simple mater of matching the engine RPMs that are spinning the gears so when the shift fork slides to the next gear the teeth are going at the same speed and mesh easily. I learned to drive a standard shift in my grandfathers truck that had 3 speeds and it had to be double clutched between shifts. Grandpa knew his truck so well that he rarely ever used the clutch at all except for starting from stop. He knew the sweet spot between RPM and gears meshing. While I was learning I bet I ground off a few pounds of those gears but I never heard gramps grind them at all with or without the clutch.

GaryL
 

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A 14 year old neighbor kid taught me to double clutch a Model A when I was 11 years old. Those were lessons that have lasted a life time.
I still double clutch when downshifting my truck. I've also been known to heel-and-toe the brake/gas pedal. (That's where you put your heel on the brake, toe on the throttle and work both with one foot while the other works the clutch.)
 

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I still double clutch when downshifting my truck. I've also been known to heel-and-toe the brake/gas pedal. (That's where you put your heel on the brake, toe on the throttle and work both with one foot while the other works the clutch.)
It can be done the other way around as well, heel on the gas. These fellas are fairly good at it:

A little bit of it going on here as well:
 

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That was how you drove our REO stock truck...had to match the rpms to get a smooth shift....I still do it without thinking....even to get it into first....

I suspect the Millennials think "double clutch" has something to do with sex ...god know what they think " manual transmission " is.

I understand that you cannot buy a new Porsche with a manual transmission....where is the humanity ???
 

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That was how you drove our REO stock truck...had to match the rpms to get a smooth shift....I still do it without thinking....even to get it into first....

I suspect the Millennials think "double clutch" has something to do with sex ...god know what they think " manual transmission " is.

I understand that you cannot buy a new Porsche with a manual transmission....where is the humanity ???
Kids today don't have the slightest clue how much fun it was to smoke them up doing a hole shot in first and then again banging second for even more smoke. My buddies Hemi GTX and another's SS Chevell 396/375 could still be smoking them hitting thrid. My last stick car was actually quite a very cool car, 1991 Honda CRX, SI model and a buddy installed an aftermarket turbo system made for that engine the week I bought it new. It wasn't a Porsche but it could tear up most other 1991 bad ass V-8s and pissed a lot of tough guys right off.

GaryL
 

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I'm afraid I'll have to take issue with you dinosaurs making assumptions. While I'm clearly a lazy millennial, having time to post on here during the day, millennials are no dummies. They've had more resources in their hand than you had in your state's libraries growing up. You don't reckon there might be some advantages there? I mean sure, everything's a tradeoff, but haven't you noticed how you're not as tough as your parents on average, either? As well, depending on which researchers you're asking, the oldest millennials right now are 42. Maybe not as old as you fossils but old enough to have likely grown up driving a 4 speed carbureted Chevette or a G body, farm truck, etc.

remember-share-if-you-are-old-enough-to-remember-making-4469731.png

Take it with a grain of salt, I am pretty freed up today.
 

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How many remember three speed transmissions with an overdrive -- a real overdrive and not just an "O.D." stamped on the shift knob -- it included free wheeling below 28mph which meant easily shifting without the clutch below 28mph, a kick down button usually on the floor under the gas pedal or on the carburetor but could be mounted on the dash and worked with your thumb and was used as a passing gear or climbing a steep hill, a miniature handbrake handle with "overdrive" cast into it and when pulled locked out the overdrive features, came with 4.1 rear diff ratio -- good for power -- but when OD was engaged equaled 2.8 overall ratio which was great for the highway. The overdrive worked in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. I had my car up to 60mph in first gear overdrive, 90mph in second gear overdrive and never found out what it would do in third gear overdrive. The only thing wrong with it was you had to learn how to use it. Not difficult or complicated but more of an effort than shifting into "D" and stomping the gas pedal and for people living in the 21st Century with their faces glued to an i-phone not worth the effort.
 

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I'm afraid I'll have to take issue with you dinosaurs making assumptions. While I'm clearly a lazy millennial, having time to post on here during the day, millennials are no dummies. They've had more resources in their hand than you had in your state's libraries growing up. You don't reckon there might be some advantages there? I mean sure, everything's a tradeoff, but haven't you noticed how you're not as tough as your parents on average, either? As well, depending on which researchers you're asking, the oldest millennials right now are 42. Maybe not as old as you fossils but old enough to have likely grown up driving a 4 speed carbureted Chevette or a G body, farm truck, etc.

View attachment 189302

Take it with a grain of salt, I am pretty freed up today.
I am going to agree with you but just in part. True dat, you younger folks sure have had access to tons more information at the click of a few mouse buttons. I grew up with the Encyclopedia Britannica and a full set of "The books of knowledge". Just like you Millennial's there were a bunch of chapters and entire books I skipped. Access to knowledge does not necessarily mean you will use it and face book and you tube get way more play with you Yuts. Kudos to those of you who don't waste your precious time on such frivolities. I absolutely hate my I phone but I fish with a much younger pal who has the world of knowledge at his fingers tips as long as his phone has a signal. You will never get me to admit he is smarter than I am but he sure does have access to tons of info that can help to make him smart and he does use it well.

GaryL
 

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I am going to agree with you but just in part. True dat, you younger folks sure have had access to tons more information at the click of a few mouse buttons. I grew up with the Encyclopedia Britannica and a full set of "The books of knowledge". Just like you Millennial's there were a bunch of chapters and entire books I skipped. Access to knowledge does not necessarily mean you will use it and face book and you tube get way more play with you Yuts. Kudos to those of you who don't waste your precious time on such frivolities. I absolutely hate my I phone but I fish with a much younger pal who has the world of knowledge at his fingers tips as long as his phone has a signal. You will never get me to admit he is smarter than I am but he sure does have access to tons of info that can help to make him smart and he does use it well.

GaryL
I do certainly miss the freedom of going without a phone. Sometimes I make it a point to leave it behind, though that is rare unfortunately. People throw a fit if you can't be reached for a day now. We're way off topic but there's something called the Flynn effect that's pretty interesting. James Flynn actually gave a TED talk on it, if you're into that sort of thing.
 

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Clutchless shifting on motorcycles.
Won't hurt a thing if done anywhere near correctly...and it ain't hard.

Starting off:
In neutral, just paddle the bike enough to get it moving forward and snick it into gear. Gas it.

Upshifting:
Preload the shift lever, then blip the throttle just a bit. Snick. Gas. Repeat.

Downshifting: Preload the shift lever very lightly. Roll off the gas. Snick. Repeat.

Stopping: Same thing, basically...but try to make the last downshift into neutral, not 1st. Then stop where you want to. If you do go past neutral into 1st, no biggy. But that is where you will stop! But again, no biggy.

All "snicks" should be quick and firm. Try to finesse it too much and you will grind the gears. That's not the end of the world but should be avoided. But again...wait for it...no biggy!

I used these techniques for 3 seasons of fast, rough Hare Scrambles on a Penton 175 Jackpiner. Gears & clutch remained good all that time, with only light normal wear.
In racing you are always in a helluva hurry. Clutching will cost you time. Guys will pass you. Or run over you! And you will not get a trophy...
With our TeeDubs there is no need to hurry and you can't hurry much anyway...so why try?
It is cool to learn another riding skill though...!

Ain't all this just the most fun!?
 
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