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Discussion Starter #1

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Its not about your health or anyone elses! Its about power and control. This crap is only the beginning of what will happen if obamacare isnt canned. Liberalism is a mental disorder
 

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I gotta laugh. I live in a place that has a lot of golf carts that are legal on some of the streets.



I can get a ticket for not having my seat belt on in my car.



While I sit there and watch ----



Golf carts go by no seat belt



Can ride my motorcycle no seat belt



The garbage truck goes by at 40mph with guys hanging off the back.



School bus with lotza kids no seat belts.



Pick up trucks go by with people in the back sitting/packed in in various ways.



Now do not get me wrong I HATE IT ALL. I think seat belts in a car are a good idea but it should be the persons choice.



Please do not pass this on to any officials as they may see they have missed several opportunities for some new laws.



I wish I was younger I would run for office on a huge roll back platform and get rid of 90+% of our so called laws. I also know I would lose!!!



Guess I should be glad I can still drink soda while doing all the above.
 

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The Tree of Liberty must be watered frequently with the blood of patriots and tyrants. We are long overdue.
 

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ha that guy really needed to breath at the end..
he made me laugh - seemed like a fair point too!








couldnt comment on obama care as I am not american.. ( from the UK originally )



but as a resident of HK I can say that the free health care for all is a life saver and very good! so this is my user's perspective on the service....









or do I have it wrong? it seems a bit odd that you guys dont want that? or get that now? ( seriosuly we read alot about this obamacare thing - but really I have no idea about reality in America. )









for instance I crashed at 60 mph.. ( well I started braking at 60 - maybe I was down to 50 )



I hit the deck hard.. thankfully I had helmet - kneepads - draggin rip proof jeans and dainese jacket- to say it hurt hard would be fair - I could hardly move for a week....





I was picked up in a n ambulance.. had xrays and MRI scan of head inside of 2 hours...



the cost to me was US$ 50



of course if it isnt emergency I dont think its that fast..







just curious about "real world" americans see this.. ( thats you guys! )



I'm just curious since I dont know any american people personally..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Lol maybe this was too much of a political thread. Perhaps I should hold back my opinion on such matters from this forum in the future. But this one (this particular piece of proposal) really hits a nerve with me. Anyone who tells me I can't buy a god damn soda anymore is going to piss me off... I drank MASSIVE, MASSIVE quantities of soda as a kid, and I'm 6'0, 135 pounds, muscular build. So saying soda makes you fat as a blanket-generalization is a load of horse sh**. In fact, I just generally dislike anyone who ever tells me what to do without a damn good reason. Dubstep: I think a lot of Americans see public health care (and the associated higher taxes to pay for it) as something that robs them of their freedom of choice (to buy healthcare or not to buy it), as in, with the higher taxes that they are required to pay, they are essentially forced to buy health care. I won't go into my personal opinion on the subject here, but I do believe that is how many Americans feel about the subject (to answer your question).
 

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Hot button for sure... In my opinion at 63, health care in this country is a bad joke. Should the government run it, I am unclear. Has the private sector done a 'good' job, I think not. I have had my health insurance benefits go down every year for so many that I can't say with certainty. Currently I don't have a job. I do have a very modest (<100,000.) 401k savings. I get $ 1,060 a month on unemployment. To continue my health insurance, it cost me $496 a month, my mortgage is $460. If I lived in my house, I would loose it, so it is rented.



A month ago, I was feeling very 'odd'. I noticed that my left side, arm and face was beginning to feel 'numb'. I was inclined to try and 'wait this out' but things seemed to be getting progressively stranger. I figure I would take a 15 mile drive to see my doctor as I did not think Saskia would enjoy finding me dead on the floor.



Well after driving a half mile, it was clear I needed to do something more local. Cut through a local gas station and drove down the road to an Urgent Care center. I explained my situation and they indicated that the best they could do for me was call an ambulance. I indicated that I could not afford an ambulance and that I would drive the 5 miles to the hospital emergency room (silly me). Once there they rushed me in and checked my blood pressure and did an EKG. They suggested I get a brain scan. I indicated I know I have a brain and it is telling me I don't have that kind of money. I conceded to a blood test to check the clotting times of my blood. Those basic test (to me) suggested I was not likely to die that afternoon and I left being informed my blood sugar was high.



Rant all you want but when it comes time to fork over $8,500 for a couple of hours in an emergency room you may feel inclined that something needs to be done. If I were not paying $6,000 a year for marginal insurance, my brief hospital experience would have cost me about 1/10th of what I worked 21 years to save.



Up until Obama, I have not seen any politician do anything meaningful to get the cost of health care under control. Seems many have suggested something needs to be done, BUT....



So you guys that have it all figured out, share your plan with me, cause right now I feel I just saved my money to hand over to the health care industry. Gerry
 

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Up until Obama, I have not seen any politician do anything meaningful to get the cost of health care under control.


Obama has done nothing to control the cost of healthcare. In fact, costs are going up at record rates. Remember the old hockey stick graph from the anthropologic global cooling anthropologic global warming anthropologic global climate change we-the-new-world-order-government-overlords-want-to-create-a-make-believe-product-to-make-the-consumer-hand-over-more-money-to-the-government-and-government-chronies fiasco? You will see it again, no matter what the government does, other than restore a free market system.



Dubstep, most Americans I know see how badly run existing government programs in the U. S. of A., especially those not specifically authorized by our constitution, are grossly mis-managed and expect more of the same in the health care industry. They are tired of spending so much for so little. Fact is, neither health care nor associated insurance has been a free market during the lifetimes of most living Americans. Previous government interference in the health care and insurance industries has brought us to where we are now, and the outlook, even with Obama's policies, is more-of-the-same.



Want to know why the U. S. of A. suffers an increasingly expensive health care system?

1) Cost of research and development of new drugs, procedures, devices, and diagnostics are disproportionatly payed by citizens of the U. S. of A. We've come a long way since bloodletting, leeches, bowsaws were the preferred treatment for gangrene. Historical precedents and cocedents include firearms, vehicles, and consumer electronics.

2) Government interference in the manufacture, distribution, and sale of drugs, procedures, devices, and diagnostics. To wit: http://usafamilymedicine.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/who-pays-for-medical-advances/ In other words, patronage and chronyism. Other governments actively bargain as wholesale buyers. The government of the U. S. of A., is a def facto wholesale seller through its patrons and chronies. Historical precedents and cocedents include firearms, vehicles, and consumer electronics.

3) Government also acts as a wholesale buyer, using taxpayers' money to buy many billions of dollars worth of medical drugs, procedures, devices, and diagnostics from its self. How this works is interesting. Simple supply and demand--the government provides (dumps) billions of dollars into the industry for medical drugs, procedures, devices, and diagnostics from suppliers in which government employees own stock, waves those dollars, thus increasing demand, thereby prompting price increases. Rather simple manipulation of the basic economic idea of supply and demand, actually, just on a $1,700,000,000,000 scale. Historical precedents and cocedents include firearms, vehicles, consumer electronics, and real estate.



The key to keep in mind is that the government of the U. S. of A. is stealing the money to make those purchases from its citizens subjects comrades, at least the 49% who actually pay income taxes.



Think I'm kidding? Such practices are not really secret--most people in the U. S. of A. are just to fat and lazy to care. I expect the next big crisis will be the ever-increasing cost of adult (university and technical) education. What is causing huge increases (remember that hockey-stick graph?) in the price of education? Billions of dollars of government money dumped on the education market through the vehicles of government-sponsored grants and government-backed loans.



Welcome to the land of the spoiled, home of the lazy.
 

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its a difficult one for me to understand.. I'm originally british.. and went to live in australia for a year then got stuck in HK for near on 20 years..



all I can say for the systems I have experienced is they seem to have benefits for people like me ( ie not much cash! ) ( and all of those countries I was in have that system in place )



I pay my taxes and National Insurance ( thats what covers medical costs in the UK - and that was at the lowest rate as I was earning the lowest possible then!)



if you are unlucky enough to have cancer or other longterm diseases ( hip replacement etc ) well having additional medical insurance could get you to the front of some lines, better service- and thats a good choice... and one you choose to pay for!



cos for sure there are in-efficiencies and quota's etc - sometimes drugs need to be ordered...





but for emergency treatment - OMG I"m having a heart attack to potential stroke - or traffic accident / any emergency..





the public system is amazing! you keel over in the street - and you dont worry! the ambulance comes - you go to hospital.. and this wont put you in debt!



Its such a surprise to me that the USA doesn't do this!





I wouldnt even think of driving 5 miles on the edge of fainting to save cash!





the great thing is that UK has a reciprocal agreement with Aus/ NZ - so when I was there for a year and developed a really sore head - turned out to be not so serious.. they helped and pretty quickly! head xrays - a specialist - and a minor operation inside of 2 weeks! ( basically I had a serious sinus infection and they punched a hole thru my nose into my skull.. they gave me cocaine to numb my nose then got a hammer and posh chisel to make a hole - slipped in a tube -then pumped the gunk out! )





Hope you guys can work it out - becos from this users perspective ( I am an average income guy ) its a real nice feeling to not worry ( even tho I have paid out for medical cover incase of unforeseen )



I think its all a bit strange to me becos this is the way its always been where ever I have lived for the entire 40 odd years I've managed so far!
 

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Qwerty, tell us how you really feel!




I am not republican or democrat. I see the parties as counter productive myself. They all suck. They all are crooks, and anyone waiting to get in office is no better than whoever is already there. JMHO.



Healthcare has been crap for many years, Obama at least touched on the subject, but no progress was really made. $25 for a single Tylenol in the ER. Screw that.



Lets do keep a little perspective though. We have it great. Unlike any other country. If yall haven't read 25,000 miles with Nick and Luke over on advrider you should. Wow- other countries suck. Running water and toilets are a flippin luxury. Our nastiest truck stops are better than any bathroom in Africa.



Thats all on that, I would like to add that while they are making big drinks against the law, they are legalizing an amount of pot! Some might argue a fair trade.
 

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Catostrophic medical insurance coverage with a rather large deductible costs me $5200/year. My wife's paying a $2092 share for her coverage. Neither policy covers my step-daughter, and her sperm donor is in jail for non-payment, so that isn't happenning. We'll be forking over $4800/year for the munchkin's coverage. Meanwhile, the mother of 6 children by 12 different dads living down the street is maintaining a 300+ pound body weight with food my taxes pay for, living in a house my taxes pay for, cooled by electricity my taxes pay for, and she pays nothing for her herd's medical, dental, glasses, groceries, ..., not even for the bus rides on school field trips, while selling the steaks she buys with my tax money to fund her forays into bars in pursuit of sex in exchange for drugs. Yes, it's a wonderful system.



As far as how wonderful socialist systems in other countries go, if Americans weren't overcharged >400%, and the rest of you had to pay your own way, best you'd get in any emergency would be a rickshaw, a bandaid, two aspirin, and maybe a free phone call to arrange a ride home.



Let those who choose a garage full of toys or a keg of beer or a 4G phone instead of insurance suffer and die. When individuals are again held responsible for the consequences of their own decisions, most will make more responsible decisions. then consider those that suffer and die a much overdo cleansing of the gene pool.
 

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We are taxed more now than when the English "ruled'......the current politicians are finding new and creative ways to ampilfy the former.Exercise your right this fall....rid the U.S.A. of Socialist and the Communist/Marxist.....and continue with the original Constitution(United States that is.....had to clarify....the Soviets had their's also!.).
 

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wow your health insurance is really OTT expensive! - over here in HK the rates for health insurance ( ie private not state ) for a 40 something is about 1000 - 1500 US$ a year...





actually in HK the welfare system is not so generous... there are some shocking sights... 80 year old women pushing hand carts recycling rubbish all hours of the day and night...



so you are are free to starve ! but then you get next to free medical attention..





the really bizarre thing is 80 percent of the population here pay no tax at all! thats becos they dont earn enough to get above the tax threshold..



so here it is the rich who pay more taxes... of course the really smart rich people have scams to pay less than they should ! but at the end of the day if you work minimum wage then you dont pay much in tax.







I'm not sure you can call the UK a socialist system in particular- altho some of the sentiments you have are echoed and do feel wrong! ; there is a welfare system and some try to abuse it - and that is sick that someone can get away with that,,, with young druggie mum's havign kids so they get houses on benefits and they spawn generations of leeches ( according to some newspapers and my brother! ) families who never work and suck the state dry!



but at the end of the day everyone gets equal treatment on the NHS - ( so if you are hit by car then you can "relax" they will patch you up...



the most "socilaist" systems in europe ( i stand to be corrected ) are places like france.... employee and union rights are quite strong there... or perhaps sweden...



they have some interesting ideas - like long paternal leave for fathers and their gender equality laws and labour laws are quite strict!



altho they do seem to have less social issues than less socialist places like the UK for instance - so I think different systems have different "curves" and you cant say one system is all bad... it's just where you are on that line is your perspective.





phew waay to much politics!



bikes are much easier... altho saying that I'm still learning!



any one got any ideas how come my wife's bike is backfiring so much on the overrun? ( she says she loves it! gets attention! - but it didnt used to be like that! )



I didnt get around to cleaning carb yet - altho the new plug I put in and battery charge has helped with starting it!
 
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