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Discussion Starter #1

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Depends on the tank, e.g. fiberglass material, and older plastic/rubber lines in the fuel system. The jump from E10 to E15 is probably significant for some, hence the ruckus. I would just pay more attention to what you're running whenever you make any change, for pinging and stuff like that, plus the degradation of the lines and seals. There are people who say that it ruins fuel pumps in their cars as well, but with newer model vehicles their systems are designed accordingly to newly implemented regulations so the main thing the majority would maybe notice is the engine running a little leaner. Although I also suspect a large percentage of people assume every option at the gas station is OK for their car, and don't read the fine print (or anything about their car, ever). So they'll overlook things such as letting the fuel sit for long periods of time. The rest of us know it's hydroscopic and a solvent.
I heard that in Brazil, ethanol level mixture is a lot higher, and they run it in older cars as well as ones that aren't flex-fuel. Hmm....
 

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Depends on the tank, e.g. fiberglass material, and older plastic/rubber lines in the fuel system. The jump from E10 to E15 is probably significant for some, hence the ruckus. I would just pay more attention to what you're running whenever you make any change, for pinging and stuff like that, plus the degradation of the lines and seals. There are people who say that it ruins fuel pumps in their cars as well, but with newer model vehicles their systems are designed accordingly to newly implemented regulations so the main thing the majority would maybe notice is the engine running a little leaner. Although I also suspect a large percentage of people assume every option at the gas station is OK for their car, and don't read the fine print (or anything about their car, ever). So they'll overlook things such as letting the fuel sit for long periods of time. The rest of us know it's hydroscopic and a solvent.
I heard that in Brazil, ethanol level mixture is a lot higher, and they run it in older cars as well as ones that aren't flex-fuel. Hmm....
MIO, The entire point of my post and this article from real life testing by a manufacturer was to show that ETHANOL is NFG for any engine and I honestly don't care what engine you use the garbage in. If you must because you have no other choice than go ahead and use what you have. If in fact you have a choice then pay the price for NON E fuels. Plastics, rubbers, fiberglass and aluminum don't fare well with ethanol and I honestly don't care what engines they are in. It is federally ILLEGAL to use E-15 in boats and you will not find Ethanol laced fuels at any airports as far as I have seen. Planes tend to fall out of the sky when their engines quit! My point is use it if you must but avoid it if you can.

GaryL
 

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Really wish we had a place close by.... I've got no choice like many but to use E10. Biggest problem we have now is no politician is ever going to go into certain areas and as part of their campaign promises include stopping the use of ethanol. One reason I wish the Iowa caucus was last on the list instead of first for stumping. I don't think we'll ever get rid of this nonsense now. I can tell you from experience with my Tundra my mileage goes up with a tank of Non E by almost 1 mpg (which is a lot for that truck). I've only been able to find that out on roads trip that take me far from the Western end of MD. And it is comparable driving when I've done it. All interstate driving and resetting the counter from one tank to the next. 16.5 mpg to 17.4 mpg both times (going by the dash computer) and I can feel a difference in response from the engine. The gas caps on our '16 Tundra and Tacoma both state nothing higher than 10%.
 

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I think you are correct about the seals, lines and rubber in the system. The link above makes it look like it will ruin all internal combustion engines. According to the damage they're showing you would need different pistons, rings, seals and rods. I remember reading an article where a guy switched his carburetors to run E85. His biggest adjustment was that the BTU is so low on the E85 that he had to put HUGE jets in the carbs and his tank went empty very quickly. I also have a neighbor who buys and sells Hyosung motorcycles. He converts many to E85, the speed junkies like it because the bikes run faster. They don't care about the range on the tank since they are out to make a quick run. He likes these bikes because they are fuel injected and simply changes the ECU programming to make them run correctly. I would rather run less alcohol but I guess it can be ran with less issues if tuned correctly and the correct alcohol tolerant parts, seals, lines, tanks, hoses, fuel pumps etc are used. If it were widely available real gas is all I would use.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Accordingly, they claim 10% ethanol is OK but 15% is a no no in most vehicles. Based on this then one would have to surmise that just 5% or 0% of ethanol would be best. Ethanol in and of itself is nothing more than a basic subsidy to the corn farmers who are now dependent on the sale of their crops for the sole purpose of the fuel refineries. I do get the principal behind the demand however I don't see in any studies where ethanol is either less expensive or more environmentally safe. IMO ethanol comes with both advantages and disadvantages and the jury is still out if one outweighs the other. I will say in your boat you should avoid it at all costs if at all possible. In your other small engines subject to infrequent use such as a chain saw, weed eater or rototiller and absolutely in a standby home generator that only gets used in emergencies I would avoid it all together. Go to your local fuel supplier, not the gas station, the place that sells home heating oil, propane and other fuels they deliver and demand that they carry non E gas for use in off road motors such as boats, older vehicles, and all small engines. That is what we did here and now we have 2 gas stations that carry non e at the pumps and the supplier is called Combined Energy Services and has separate pumps for non e, off road diesel for tractors and K-1 Kerosene. Go ask your local small engine sales and repair place what they think about ethanol fuel! A couple of the repair shops here love the stuff simply because every spring they get lots of new repair business that keeps them working and making money.

GaryL
 

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I hate ethanol. Spent many hours helping friends or having friends help me because that stuff gums up old bikes in a bad way.

We have one pure gas station here but it's across town and closed on Sunday. I'll go every so often and fill up my 14 gal hand pump tank. On longer rides I don't mind it too much if I'm jus going through a whole tank and can put the good stuff in before I store a bike.
 

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I have been using fuel stabilizer pretty much every time I fill up my tank. It's a pain to do every time, but I am trying to maintain a clean, well running engine as much as possible. There are a few ethanol free stations, but not really near by me.
 

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There are some stations around here that sell Ethanol free gasoline...I use it in ALL of my small engines.
A few summers ago, while travelling across a BC Interior lake, my outboard started bucking and hunting; not the sort of thing you want to experience when you're trying to get across a lake in a rain storm.....
Later that day, I pulled the carb off and when I opened it up, it was FULL of white crystals....looked like a mixture of chalk and salt. It was the residue left behind by years of E-10.
I also had a lawn-mower that suffered at the hands of Ethanol....the rubber diaphragm in the carb was completely eaten by that junk in less than 6 months.
My truck is "designed" to run up to E15....so I use that stuff, but for small engines it's STRICTLY ethanol-free. It's a bit more expensive, but definitely "worth" it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I believe in automobiles with EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) the computers can compensate for the fuel you are using and reset the air to fuel ratio so you are not running too lean or too rich. This is how a newer vehicle can use the E-15 crap without too much trouble. I suspect in our TWs if that was the only fuel you could buy you could adjust your carb to burn it and not do too much damage once the carb was tuned for it. Most problems in our small engines come from the fuel going stale in the tanks from long periods of no use. If your TW is a daily driver and always getting a fresh fuel fill up then use the crap. If like most here the bike is subject to sit with the same fuel in the tank sometimes for months then avoid the crap at all costs. As long as your carb is adjusted to the fuel and not running far too lean you should be fine with the E-10 as long as you keep using up the tank full.

GaryL
 

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I have a couple friends that work at the chopper hangar at our little airport, wonder if they'd let me fill a few cans of AV, y'know, for research and all.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I have a couple friends that work at the chopper hangar at our little airport, wonder if they'd let me fill a few cans of AV, y'know, for research and all.
A while back and on another Ethanol discussion we had a member who was quite knowledgeable on AVGas. I know it is most often a higher octane fuel and pretty sure it still contains lead or a lead additive. Where it does us no good is in the fact the TW does not have the higher compression to utilize the higher octane. A nice old 426 Hemi would be in heaven with the AVgas but not so much for the slow old TWs. Wish I could remember his name from those past discussions but I have 67 excuses why I can't.

GaryL
 
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