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If Holder and the Obama Lap Dog Bunch are doing this....I view it with a Jaundiced eye.....looks good on paper, but......:ambivalence:
 

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^^^Well Hell, considering Blacks{males between 13-59) make up about 5% of the population and commit 55- 60% of violent crime(rapes, murders, etc)...this is a good enough reason for Obama, Holder, and Company, to try and protect their "Base"....and don't bother with calling me a "Racist" or some other BS...facts and stats don't lie......unless the Liberal Media or the DNC is being selective when reporting them.
 

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Very Interesting. It was the Washington Post, so immediately you know the reporting is slanted, and only half complete. Good catch Croatian. (I tried to spell it your way, but the checker keeps changing it.). I don't trust anything that AG does. You are absolutely right that he sees everything on the basis of color.

...however, seizure of property, by seizure I mean confiscation, without some form of due process is paramount to treason. Seriously, why the heck do I have to prove it is mine just because a LEO decides it may not be mine??? WTF?
 

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He who carries around 20 grand in small bills may have a need to have his money and his brand new Mercedes seized and made to prove where he got it. Especially if he never had to pay taxes in his life. Yes they need to be more selective how and when they use this power, but don't just take away one of the best tools police have to combat these drug dealers.[

The burden of proof should always be on the accuser and not on the accused. Funding law enforcement with seizure is like funding an army with pillage and plunder.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Cro, you are a good guy, but you have no idea what the hell you are talking about on this one. Federal civil forfeiture needs to be scrapped instantly. Actually, work on this one. What is the authority for any Federal Criminal Law, outside of Treason? Seriously? In other words, find for me in the Constitution any basis for Federal Criminal Laws.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Cro, I will admit you are at a slight disadvantage, those who have been here continuously will notice the thread name is simply a switch on an old thread of mine that went totally and completely to hell and gone called "Nothing to see here citizen, carry on" It was originally about the abuses of civil forfeiture. The thread in it's entirety got "forfeited" (read deleted)
 

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^^^^^That was the first of the Hi~Jacked threads if I recall....got so bad we dumped it{or asked RBM to|.......:p
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I will give everyone a bit of my personal analysis on how things went to hell in a handbasket. It isn't as complicated as one might think. In the beginning the Federal Government was granted very limited powers to do those things the States could not best do individually. Wage Foreign Wars, Establish Postal Roads, and Regulate Interstate Commerce. (I will ask you to note right up front the word "regulate" and "commerce", it doesn't say criminalize, it says regulate, and it deals solely with commerce between the States.) The States were initially concerned with a usurping Federal Government and the tenth amendment to the Constitution illustrates that distrust. Under the tenth amendment the obvious was merely stated. Those powers not specifically granted to the Federal Government were reserved to the States.

So how do we get Federal Criminal Laws? How do we really get much of any Federal laws beyond those dealing with interstate commerce, postal roads and foreign wars and treaties?

The answer is simple. Fraud. Fraud and perversion of the commerce clause. Every federal law must state it's basis. Almost every one of them uses the commerce clause. In a way never intended. Frequently in ways that are patently absurd. An example, and I'm not joking...it's happened...let's say the Feds want to regulate a totally in state business. They shouldn't be able to. The States are sovereign. But the business has a telephone. Well damb, that phone is connected to lines that run to other states...hey, that's interstate commerce, and "here's yer law". Most dishonest thing in the world. Perverting a limited power to basically justify every thing the Federal Government does. Commerce Clause every time. Read the clause and see if you think it empowers the Feds to do what they do. Go ahead, read it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Civil forfeiture undeniably provides both a deterrent against crime and as a measure of punishment for the criminal. Many criminals fear the loss of their vacation homes, fancy cars, businesses and bloated bank accounts far more than the prospect of a jail sentence.
Cro, do you have any basis for this observation other than your "gut feeling"? (I've got nothing against gut feelings, I rely on them occasionally myself) I'm not picking on you, and I won't ever do that. But understand, I am first and foremost a Constitutional Scholar. And secondly, I am a criminal lawyer who basically defends high profile drug crimes. So, I got a decent set of boots on so to speak. First, no drug dealer gives (oh, let's Hoot this one..."shivs a git" ) about money and cars. That's regular working man thinking. These guys deal in tons of cash. Lose a car? Nada. Lose fifty grand? Cost of doing business. Get locked up? Business over. You couldn't be more wrong. Civil forfeiture hurts the innocent guys, the little guys. The big guys just throw it on the balance sheet. Means nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
The box not only can be closed, it will be closed.

My people were on the winning side in the War for Independence. My people were on the losing side in the War of Northern Aggression. We have just been biding our time.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
And you just expressed the economic interest in law enforcement in forfeiture, so you should be looking for your grain of salt to swallow that with. Actually, seek out one of those rare cops who will tell ya just the way it is. He will tell you that taking money from a drug dealer is meaningless. For those guys, as long as they are on the street, money is an easily renewable resource. Want to fight drugs? Don't create a market.
 

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The entire Feds vs States thingy is a good reason for the Second American Revolution.....there are more than a few in the White House and elsewhere I would like to see swinging from a tall Oak Tree....the Founding Fathers are either spinning in or trying to dig their way out of their collective graves....and I would love to be next to them, fighting and dying, if necessary, to get them breathing life into what has become of this ONCE{not even close any longer} great Republic. {and I ain't shitting anybody}
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
And just for the record, I wish they would quit peeing my money away on the "War on Drugs". You want to do drugs, do them. Free country. You have health issues, I guess you need to pay for them or suffer the consequences. But I for one see the similarity in the war on drugs and the war in Afghanistan. Money wasting looser. Learn from history mates. The Brits couldn't do dah-dah in Afghanistan, the Russians got platter assed , why should we expect a different result?

And realize how unselfish that observation is. It would put me out of business. Still, it's the smart move. I can retrain.
 

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I'm with Borneo on this one.

Come on Big-O, blow that horn. I just want to see the confused look on their faces as they tell him to get his lips off the president's horn. =]

Confiscation/Theft, I can't tell the difference between the farmers and pigs anymore.

I don't want to own anything. I want the authority to use it all.
 

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Discussion Starter #19

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And while we are here solving the problems of the world, solve one for me. Why do Cro, Hoot and Fred have little pluses (+) next to their names?
Because you have accepted them as friends of the forum.

Or...

Because they are on the NSA watch list.
;)
 
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