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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a 2014 TW. It has only 663 miles on it. Four days ago I had the oil changed and carb cleaned at a Yamaha dealer. I rode it for the first time today after getting it back from the dealer. I went about 4 miles on a hilly dirt road. Suddenly the motor-I think it was the motor-started a high pitched squeeling and lost power. I coasted to a stop and tried to start it up again. No luck. I got off and looked everything over but could not see anything amiss. After about 5 minutes, I tried to start it again. It started right up. I rode about 2miles and then it happened again. I stopped, looked for any evidence but could not see anything wrong. About 4 minutes later, I started it up again. I rode about a mile and the same squeeling started again only this time I tried to keep going by down shifting or up shifting and playing with the throttle. I made it to my house and it died again at the top of my driveway. I coasted down the driveway and left it there.
Any ideas, anyone?
 

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Man, I sure hope it wasn't caused by the use of the wrong oil filter....some of the filters are incorrectly marked by the factory and have caused engine failure since they don't have the correct holes to facilitate proper oil circulation.

Check out this post...http://tw200forum.com/forum/technical-help/2946-top-end-oil-failiure.html


Oh, and welcome to the forum. Sorry it began because of an issue with the TW. This is a great group of wise owners who can help with anything that ails your bike.
 

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Welcome to the forum!

Yes, this is an all too often problem around here. Whatever you do, don't run the engine anymore. Get it to the dealer. They messed up. (And they need to cover the costs!!) Be prepared to not be riding for a while...your bike engine top end needs a rebuild. Sorry to say that, but that's probably the problem.
 

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mrmike48, almost all of us...with a few exceptions....have a damn good idea of what is wrong with your bike, and...I am sorry to say it is not good news.

Before you do anything else......do NOT make any mechanical changes to the bike at all....do NOT touch the bike, other than rolling it around and trucking it to the Yamaha dealership that last worked on it.

"IF" I am right, and I truly HOPE I am not right in this case.....but "IF" I am right, then the dealer installed the WRONG oil filter in the engine...and/or...did not bleed the oil bleed bolt at the upper right/rear of the cyl head, to verify that OIL has been circulated throughout the engine, and is being sent to the cyl. head.

To clarify, the "supplier" of these Oil Filters for Yamaha...has recently been installing the WRONG oil filter...into the RIGHT box......so....the Cardboard BOX is correctly labeled, BUT...the filter inside that box is "most likely" the WRONG oil filter.

I do not have the pictures at my fingertips right this minute, but there is a LOT of info on this forum with pictures, or the RIGHT oil filters, and the WRONG oil filters.

If the dealership just did an oil change...and if at the same time they replaced the oil filter....you "should" have a copy of that service repair order, as a bill for you.
On that service repair order, it should state if they installed new oil...and a new oil filter.

LOOK at that service repair order, and see exactly...precisely...what it shows.

If it shows they charged you for a new oil filter...then your butt should be covered, as the fault lays with the dealership.

But to prove this, you need to keep YOUR hands OUT of the bike....do NOT make ANY changes to the bike, from the way they handed it to you after their work was done.

Verify that the service repair order shows this work done, and the new oil filter, then......calmly...call the dealership and ask that they PLEASE come to your house, to haul the bike back to the dealership, for needed work.

Do NOT explain all the facts of life to them YET. Have them come to your house.....pick up the bike...and once it is at the dealership service dept.....with more than just the mechanic that did the work standing there (meaning...get the Service Manager, or the Owner, or someone else to be there as a witness).......ask them to PLEASE remove the new oil filter, and have everyone standing there LOOK at this new oil filter they just removed from your bike.

If it is the WRONG oil filter.....they now owe you a new bike, or at a minimum...a rebuilt engine.

This is NOT a joke. This is serious.

Be aware that WE have a LOT of info on this forum about BAD oil filters all over North America, being put in the right boxes, but they are the wrong oil filters.

Oh, welcome to the forum...............heck of a first post for you to have to go through...eh?

PLEASE tell us where you live, and which dealership serviced this bike.
~ ~ ~ ~
+1 on all of the above,
Don't let them fix and hand back to you as I fear they will unless you get the hand in the cookie jar on this one,
Good luck and keep us filled in !
Peter B
 

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mrmike48, almost all of us...with a few exceptions....have a damn good idea of what is wrong with your bike, and...I am sorry to say it is not good news.

Sigh...ditto.
 

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....also keep in mind that the WRONG oil filter means that oil has not been circulating throughout the entire engine and trans....so...while the lower parts of the engine and trans have sat in an oil BATH....other parts/bearings/etc have not been lubricated.
The way I read these pictures is oil flows out the back end of the oil filter up to the head. Without the 4 little holes in the filter no oil flows to the head and hence a fried camshaft. I could be wrong.......

Personally I would settle for a new head or even a rebuilt head. Either way the dealer should pickup the tab.

oiol flow 2.jpg oiol flow 1.jpg
 

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Rather nice oil flow schematic elime, where do you find such technical treasure? Would be good to view in greater detail.
For example it is interesting that there seems to be two paths for pressurized oil leaving the oil pump. (Gerry's Mr.Gizmo originally had an oil cooler that tapped into oil supply from the left side of the schematic, the oil line leading to the output shaft bearing that Gerry fabricked prior to the existence of the LZRDBRTH cooler design.)
So of note is that any flow resistance in one of the lines leading from oil pump, say like from the line and internal friction of a oil cooler, or an incorrect oil filter;), shall diminish the flow rate through that line. Instead more of the outputted pressurized oil will take path of least resistance and flow a bit more through the other oil line available ( to the out-put bearing in the lower end).
CONCLUSION: LZRDBRTH oil coolers diminish oil flow rates through the cylinder head to a certain degree due to the head loss/pressure drop/internal wall friction of the associated cooler lines and heat exchanger. Keep those lines as straight and short as possible.:rolleyes:
 

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Isn't that in the shop manual?
 
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Yes. I bought the shop manual on a CD when I first got my first TW. I use it all the time.
I knew I had seen that before, figured it had to be the manual. ;)
 

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Please don't think I am condemning the LZRDBRTH style of oil cooler, just pointing out some fluid dynamics after post concerned about oil flow to the lower end of the engine.
Personally I have one each of both styles of coolers. Like everything in life each has it's benefits and liabilities and one takes the bad with the good.
For example I like that with the Mr.Gizmo cooler should there be any drain-down of oil following an oil change the purged line just leads to the out-put bearing whose shaft is not turning so doesn't mind a temporary oil starvation until the oil flow circuit is re-established. This differs from the oil cooler that intercepts oil flow on it's way to cam and valve train whose parts start turning immediately upon engaging the starter motor.
This is just theory...in practice the residual oil film on rockers and cam is likely sufficient to provide acceptable lubrication until oil flow is re-established.
 

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Please don't think I am condemning the LZRDBRTH style of oil cooler, just pointing out some fluid dynamics after post concerned about oil flow to the lower end of the engine.
Personally I have one each of both styles of coolers. Like everything in life each has it's benefits and liabilities and one takes the bad with the good.
For example I like that with the Mr.Gizmo cooler should there be any drain-down of oil following an oil change the purged line just leads to the out-put bearing whose shaft is not turning so doesn't mind a temporary oil starvation until the oil flow circuit is re-established. This differs from the oil cooler that intercepts oil flow on it's way to cam and valve train whose parts start turning immediately upon engaging the starter motor.
This is just theory...in practice the residual oil film on rockers and cam is likely sufficient to provide acceptable lubrication until oil flow is re-established.

Fred .. I had similar thoughts when installing my cooler. how much longer is the top end without oil pressure on every start and how long can the bike sit before there is no oil residue left at the cam, giving the top end a dry start . I would feel better if the cooler was mounted lower than the oil filter, then I would know that the cooler and lines stayed full all the time and the top end did not have to wait for the lines and cooler to fill on each start. some thing to work on
 

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Please don't think I am condemning the LZRDBRTH style of oil cooler, just pointing out some fluid dynamics after post concerned about oil flow to the lower end of the engine.
Personally I have one each of both styles of coolers. Like everything in life each has it's benefits and liabilities and one takes the bad with the good.
For example I like that with the Mr.Gizmo cooler should there be any drain-down of oil following an oil change the purged line just leads to the out-put bearing whose shaft is not turning so doesn't mind a temporary oil starvation until the oil flow circuit is re-established. This differs from the oil cooler that intercepts oil flow on it's way to cam and valve train whose parts start turning immediately upon engaging the starter motor.
This is just theory...in practice the residual oil film on rockers and cam is likely sufficient to provide acceptable lubrication until oil flow is re-established.
I agree with the concern, it's a valid concern (i'm not condemning anything either). That's why I run a heavier oil with the "filter cover" cooler installed. The thinner synthetics drain down too quick and if the bike is left to sit a week the top really does loose allot of the film. I've pulled off the cam cover after sitting a week and the cam gear is quite dry (I still have to pull off a rocker tappet cover to look at the lobes) but that will have to wait till late fall when I move to a thinner oil.

There is an advantage of cooling the oil just before it heads off to the cam though (it's cooler when hitting the cam thus removing more heat). Cooling oil off just before it hits the sump may have the effect of the oil getting re-heated in the block back up to the the temp it was before it was cooled, the cam will see no cooling effect in this case. I used a thermo-couple and had done some measurements. The little radiators have very little off-set in temp so the closer the cooler is to the cam the better. If the copper coil around the frame as a radiator provides highly efficient cooling it may make sense doing it there at the sump, and then there is the electric fan.. That too helps the case ;) Basically doing it at the sump is best case if you have a cooling system that is very efficient but it may need a temperature sensor operated bypass for cold days. My guess is Mr G has that.

The little cooler on the oil filter cover does provide value, not enormous amounts but enough to be worth it. A bigger heavy duty radiator would be nice, especially CNC cut out of aluminum so it could take a big hit.
 
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So either the bleed screw or wrong filter is my theory!


I this happened to me and I had read this thread, I would arm myself with the picture of the filters, the good and the bad. Along with that I would have the links to the thread where the fella had his serviced and the wrong filter was installed....Then I would go to the dealer with the bike. Be nice and explain the problem to the manager... Explain this is a situation out of control. Request that you are present when the filter is removed for inspection. I would even take the allen wrench that fits the filter cover along with a bucket to catch the oil so if the dealer declines to let you watch, go out to the bike and remove the filter right there in the parking lot.

As we know there have been many instances of forum members having the wrong filter... Just think, there are about 10,000 members of this thread and about 1K active... How many TW200's are out there? +1 million? Oh my, sad to think that there may be LOT'S of abandoned TW's out there... disgusted owners....

Jim
 

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I suppose if we are really obsessive about pre-oiling the cam area we could always just bump the starter a few times without letting engine begin it's infernal combustion; just enough to let oil pump drive oil from sump up to and through the head.
Irregardless of having an oil cooler or not the drain down of oil occurs, both in the stock TW as well as likely every other stock engine car, boat, plane, lawnmower we have lying around. I am not worried and thus not obsessive. Just like to spit ball ideas around with you smart folks.

EDIT: My apologies to Mrmike for hi-jacking his thread r.e. his personal problem with a new TW.
Sorry Sir, figured hi-jack was OK until we hear back from you and your adventure with the dealer and the oil filter status.
 
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