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Gary, I never said it was ok for those individuals, along with many others to do the same thing. I hold our country to an exceptionally high standard because of all of the folks who dedicated their lives fighting (in war, in peace, and in the halls of Congress) and those who have died (fighting redcoats to fighting terrorists), so those sacrifices aren't in vain.

We sure don't do ourselves any favors in our personal relationships keeping lists of all the stuff done wrong, but benefit on helping our partners focus on getting things right the next time around, I think our relationships with our politicians need to be held in the same light... and if they just can't seem to get it right, it's time to find someone else.
 

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Well the DOJ just fell to a corrupt POTUS. justice no longer applies...
 

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By some of the comments made here, I am thinking that certain people work in government positions. In other words they make up the swamp. They now have a president that is draining the water from under them. And they might not even live in the USA. Domino effect.
 

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As a total outsider I am proud to say that I wholeheartedly support DJT and his efforts to put USA first again. How long has Africa sucked off the US tit draining funds from much needed infrastructure projects ect. What does the US get in return for it? I can tell you because I live in Africa, the governments that count on US aid and handouts ALL turn around and blame the US for not giving more, (their corrupt practice in stealing aid meant for the country not withstanding) and making the US out to be this vicious monster out to kill off starving masses because they hate Africans.
DJT should close all the teats and let the chips fall where they may, simply because the majority of African countries are socialist cesspools (South Africa included) There is basically 1 African country that is still semi working, but starting to flounder now and that is Botswana, reason being their socialistic views are catching up with the diamonds they count on to fund the country. China steps in do MAJOR projects at inflated costs on "easy" terms excluding the fine print and gets rid of a few thousand "dissidents" by leaving their own work force(read Criminals) in the country where the work gets done. If the country can't pay, no problem they take over a mine or two in lieu of payment.
You can't begin to comprehend the levels of corruption we as African peoples deal with daily, everyone has their hand out, from the local traffic cop right through to the president in the public sector, private sector is no better either.
If you want snivel and bitch and moan about corruption and unfair process come to Africa and try to find work here as white male as a trades man, middle or upper management, you don't get work. If you're white and own a company, you're deemed to have profited off the backs of black slavery and can't do business with the government or big corporations unless you give 51% of your business to a black partner. That's supposed to address the inequalities of the past???????????????
BULL SHIT!!!!!!!! it just takes away from the people that have worked their whole life to build and better themselves and the people working for them. Contrary to popular belief us white Afrikaans people in South Africa actually care about everyone in S/A and we do want to see the sun shine upon everyone.
Given this back ground and the people that are worse than Zuma that serve in the US house and congress, I for one will go over there and personally help DJT throw them out by the scruff of their necks and pant seats. What Pee-losi, No-nads, Shifty and their whole cabal did is and was treason, lying to remove a duly elected president!!!
If it was me, I'd send the whole DOJ after the lot and properly clean house, the dems are no better that African despots like Mugabe and Zuma, same tactics that the Imperial British also used, divide and conquer whilst blaming it on the other side. I've lived through what the dems & left in the US are pushing and fighting for at the moment, if you support them they'll welcome and use you until they reached their goal, then trow you by the wayside without as much as flinching.
Resist this B/S with everything you've got unless you want to end up just another failed socialist state, and DO NOT for one moment think it can't happen to you, look at California, the attacks on your 2nd amendment, freedom of speech, etc. Look back on history at what a certain Austrian individual Adolf Hitler, did how he created a niche for himself and with a soft coup removed the leader of Germany, then apply that to what the dems are doing!!!!!!!!!!!

You can try and argue the semantics all you want but in the end the left has the vision of a one world union that the central government sets policy and procedure and the individual is the enemy of the collective.
 

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I guess I have to ask this Andre. What is that keeps you in South Africa? Not to get personal and you have every right to just say you have your reasons but to probe a bit further would it be all that hard for you to move here to the US? Is that even possible or are there roadblocks and major restrictions keeping you there?
From my own perspective I can tell you we allow millions of immigrants into this country annually, some legal and many more illegal. What keeps you in Africa if you care to expound on your situation?
There is much truth in what you say regarding DJT but keep in mind only about half of those who voted cast their vote for him which leaves the other half still angry their candidate did not win and he did. It appears here on this forum there are more who support him than not and a lot of those who do support him don't necessarily care to discuss it here.
I am with you on the thought of Trump closing up the check book and ending all foreign aid to any and all countries who otherwise refuse to support our good will. I don't want to see anyone or any country starve but I get pretty disgusted that our soldiers keep dying and often from the bullets and military hardware the US provided. Even from the other side of our world you can see that those who like our President still like him or at least the job he is doing but those who don't like him have pure hatred for him and will never admit he has done anything good even with the facts in front of them.

GaryL
 

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Gary the short answer to your question is Family.

I've thought about that, when I was in the army in 1990(conscription), I was of the meaning that anyone that leaves the country should be shot. Then after '94 when the anc, our former enemy, took over our enemies became the government. There were a huge percentage of us that thought why did we fight and die in a war when we were sold out by politicians(not unlike the Vietnam vets).

Human nature much like the frog in the pot of boiling water happened I suppose. I did go over to New Zealand in 2011 to look for opportunities there, but as it turned out I'm not qualified enough on paper to get a job in my line (mechanics). I came back and since my aged parents and my children are also here it serves no purpose for me to "run away" from the troubles here and leave them behind. I'm in that stage of my life where it's touch and go as to whether I can find gainful employment abroad. I can do a lot of different things but have no qualifications in any of them, much the same as most S/A citizens. I do however try and get my kids to explore the world, and only my youngest seems to have any motivation to go overseas after her studies. My son had the chance to go with friends to Chicago, but turned out that party life and pot won out in the end. Luckily that seems to be behind him now since he became a Dad.

I live in the Western Cape that is still a working part of the country and the indigenous people who call themselves Cape Colored and the Afrikaans people do stand together politically for the most. We share a similar set of beliefs and values, we speak the same language, Afrikaans, and our cultures have lent heavily from each other. Things are not as bad here as in the rest of the country, yet.
 

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It is obvious that I do not share the opinions and values expressed in here...….so I will be moving one....it has been real....bart
I never agree with everything anywhere. Why not just ignore this thread and stick around for the other conversations, TW200 and riding related, etc.?
 

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Andre, I fully expected "Family" to be the driving force keeping you there since I don't know your age. The "Qualifications" you lack certainly should not be what holds anyone back from coming here. Plenty of opportunities for those with some skills who are in fact willing to work. I'll be 68 soon and did serve in the USN during Vietnam as a helicopter mechanic and air crewman but just like you, those skills and the training I got don't have much of a paper trail and back in 1973 when I got discharged and came back home there sure were not many choppers anywhere near where I lived. Everyone around here worked in the prison system because we had 7 different facilities within a 50 mile radius. Some worked in the Civilian services, cooks, clerks, mechanics and maintenance workers and others on the security side as law enforcement officers after attending the academy and passing the 13 week training course like me. I sure could have gone to work as a mechanic at any of the local car or truck dealerships but opted for the security and pension plan working for the state.
NY is where I live and love to hate it. Since retiring I can easily move to more tax free and conservative states that have much better climates but family keeps me here and I do love right where I live and grew up all my life. When we travel on vacations I hate to admit I am from NY because there is a POX associated with this state in most other states. Most folks only think of NY as NY City and have no idea there is so much more to NY than the city and the left leaning politics which by the way are all governed by the many millions population of the city proper. More people live in the 5 counties of NY City than in the entire rest of the state. The NY Catskills mountains where I live and the northern Adirondack mountains are absolutely gorgeous and much more in the Trump camp than those in the big cities. I am exactly 90 miles from NY City and can count on 2 hands how many times I have ever ventured into that jungle. Nothing there for this country boy. Blue is the color for the democrats and red is for republicans. If you look on any NY maps that show political voting records it is almost all red except for 5 blue dots depicting the big cities. All of the rural areas are red and the biggest cities govern our entire states political leanings turning it blue because of population numbers. People from the city come here for the summer and on weekends but can't stand the peaceful life up here for very long and those who live here can't stand the city slickers very long either, we are two completely different breeds of the same people.
Transfer that over to this TW200 forum and you can easily see those who own TWs probably live in the rural red NY and not many City blue folks have TWs because they would disappear in a heartbeat if parked in the concrete jungle of the cities. As a young stud I drove my car into NYC to visit a gal I met up here. Stayed for the night and when I got back to my car it was on cinder blocks with no wheels and the radio was torn out. Those thieves might have got shot pulling that crap up here.

GaryL
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Andre, as someone else who has first hand experience of what a socialist government can do to a formerly healthy country and its economy I applaud your input on experiences in your home country.
I find it hard to comprehend that almost half of America's citizens can consider embracing socialism despite its universally dismal global failure rate.
The quality of "free" socialist health care seen in other countries is nothing like the quality of care available today in the USA today. I don't think progressive Americans realize just how much they will have to lower their expectations if socialist medicine is enacted, we are not used to waiting. I don't think many realize that today's healthy US economy that seems capable of supporting wide spread social engineering today will wither and falter like other countries that has experimented with central government control. Big difference is that there will not be another USA to bail us out.
 

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Gary I'll be 50 in June so yes I do have a few miles on the clock. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: The funny thing about any country is that all peoples get along, and fabulously so, until you bring politics/religion into the fray. My ex and youngest live in a large city and are liberal, I live in a rural area and is conservative. Though funnily enough in the surrounding area we have the country's largest "hippy" population.
I can also relate with the city folks "invading" you during season time, as we live in a "holiday zone" ourselves, glad to have them here and take their money, but just as glad to see the back of them. I could do better financially by moving to a large city and re-join the rat race, but my sanity is worth more to me than the money I can make there.
Nowadays in the cities our criminals don't steal the stereo and tires, they hijack you at gun point and take the whole car, funny thing is should you defend yourself and hurt/wound/kill the criminal YOU are the prosecuted of a crime and NOT the criminal.
A few South African exports to the US I would like you to keep there at all costs please are trevor noah and musk, don't want or need them here:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
You should see if you can take a look at our State of the Nation Address that our President delivered last night and see what we are dealing with here. Try not to laugh too hard though.
 

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Fred you just need to look at what the liberal media in our country has to say about our social medicine system to realize it's worse than pathetic. The amount of patients dying because the medical staff is too busy taking a tea or lunch break. Cuban doctors that do not understand the patients or so called medical professionals that are too apathetic to be doing their job.
Our medical staff at hospitals are allowed to down tools and walk out if they are unhappy with anything. Hospitals are filthy because you can't reprimand anyone or the all go on strike.

That is socialism, NO INCENTIVE NO RESULTS!!!!!!!!!
 

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I am with you on living in the rural places Andre and like you and Fred my neighbors are deer and bears. Unfortunately living rural comes with some disadvantages such as lack of services such as stable internet and TV signals. They all come here from outer space via satellites and with highly limited data caps. I can't do streaming or youtube videos and must be very careful with how much I do regarding picture posting and uploading various stuff from the WWW.
Your President's address to the nation is something we would never see here and no way I could go find and watch it from here.

GaryL
 

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Gary, I just describe it as 3 ring circus with the EFF party (Economic Freedom Fighters, the black version of the KKK) disrupting the whole proceeding. Eventually they were thrown out again and the speech could start.Total shambles!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #96 (Edited)
We are much more subtle here with our liberal dominated media's manipulation of what we are told and thus what our group-think should be.
For example we have what used to be considered a respectable research based weekly show called 60 Minutes. This last Sunday during their lead story they repeatedly referred to our sitting president as "Mr.Trump" while seconds later remember etiquette and refer to the former president as "President Obama" in very same editorialized story. Think there is a little disrespect for the current office holder as they try to slip one over on the public?...as if we all already agree with the premiss that President Trump does not deserve the title and is somehow evil or impeachable.
They have successfully taught a lot of us to hate Donald Trump but forgot to supply the facts to base that hatred upon.
A crude analogy would be if I were to stand up in front of your church's congregation and ask "You still beating your wife?" Everyone just might then decide you must be a wife beater even though I have no evidence or offer at the time but if pressured would promise evidence sometime in the future.

The media likes to ignore a lot of questionable political shenanigans by the DNC yet try to crucify President Trump with similar yet unfounded accusations.
This conspiracy to keep the swamp secure began well before DNC colluded with Hillary Clinton to use her campaign funds to secretly pay Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele for his Dossier to dig up political dirt on candidate Trump before the 2016 election.
The mostly unverified dossier was then used by the FBI to justify the Foreign Intelligence Service Act warrant to target the Trump campaign in the final days of the campaign.
Media seems to not want to cover this. Honest journalism would demand it. Never mind that any FISA warrants were reviewed and approved by the Obama Whitehouse...don't want to confuse the voters before the upcoming election. Wasn't it Quid Pro Joe Bidden who once said "Don't let the facts get in the way of the truth"?

Millions of tax payer dollars later the subsequent Robert Mueller investigation could not substantiate any of the Team Clinton allegations. Liberal media dismissed the dismissal and went on to pursue the impeachment process ( Announced by Washington Post 19 minutes after President Trump first took office). Think about that loyal Democrats, the lies you have been told are legion.

This is why I posted the unedited State of the Union Address. So we can not only see and hear the President's unedited words but more importantly see the demeanor of sitting democrats hearing them, not just Nancy Pilose's much publicized disrespect.
 

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Funny Fred. You are preaching to the choir with most of us and tripping over your words with a few others. Those who have not contracted TDS know exactly where you are coming from but not so much with some others. What tends to trip my trigger in this is the most vocal of the ones who get all bent out of shape from what you say don't even live or vote here and a few others have never lifted a single finger to protect what we are passing down to them. I can always revert back to a highly respected man of the cloth these youngsters don't even know. Father Guido Sarduchi on SNL when it was a very popular show once said to the Roman Catholic Pope, "You no playing the game you no making the rules. This of course was all about sex but it has great meaning elsewhere in today's societal issues. Those north of our borders are highly restricted in the ownership of firearms and the use thereof. This is claimed to protect the innocent yet many millions have met their graves once any government disarmed it's SUBJECTS! These are facts quickly overlooked because of the teachings, OR NOT, coming from the liberal educational schools and universities. Those here in the USA have a Second Amendment that was put in place to thwart the Tyrannical governments seen throughout this worlds histories. To the best of my knowledge the USA is the only world Superpower that still has any kind of Second Amendment still in force. The populous here in the United States of America maintain a foothold with our Second Amendment and will not go like lambs to the slaughter without a real fight. Will our military and the sworn police really take up arms against their neighbors in the same towns where their children, wives and families have to live????
Most of us are fine about protecting our single planet but at what price while other countries are polluting it 50 times more? Back in the early 1970s I was serving in the US Navy and stationed in San Diego. The ocean there was highly polluted 50 years ago and is way more polluted now and it damn sure is not completely from the USA. Politicians damn sure don't get wealthy from serving in paid government elected positions! They sell us out, both D & R to gain their wealth and power. Don't believe a word you hear from any of them. A populous with the ability to protect themselves and fight back is what got the USA to where we are today and I see some very bad things coming down the line pretty soon if we don't start raising fighting men instead of pussies. Most of us won't be here but if we really can look down after we are gone there won't be much confusion about why it happened. Every previous country that has effectively disarmed it's people has gone directly into the shitter. That is HISTORY and it should never be overlooked.

GaryL
 

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Every previous country that has effectively disarmed it's people has gone directly into the shitter. That is HISTORY and it should never be overlooked.
...this is a historical FACT, and yet the anti-gun advocates don't see this.

From my cold dead hands....
 

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Once upon a time we were One nation of laws, One Constitution, One Bill of Rights.

Now we have Sanctuary cities that openly defy the Federal Government and harbor illegal immigrants, some of which are violent felons.
Drugs are legal in some states which directly violates federal law, but it is ignored.
City, county and state gun laws are all becoming different. If you cross state lines, enter the wrong state or city, you could be now be guilty of a felony and thrown in jail and permanently lose the right to own guns. All in the same Country!
The list goes on.
You have nothing close to the same rights as you travel in the same Country. This is the slow erosion of the American way of life.
The news media is responsible for the liberal/ socialist brainwashing agenda. It’s no longer the news, it’s their version of the news. And they openly speak against the 2nd Amendment while hiding behind the 1st. If you don’t want to work, why should you. The government will house you, feed you, send you to college, pay your medical bills. You don’t even need to be a citizen in some cases. The more dysfunctional you are, the more likely it is you have will no liability for your actions.
It should be One nation, One set of laws.
It will be interesting when all the young snowflakes reach retirement age and they won’t have sh/t to fall back on because it’s all been given away. I guess it will be time for a group hug.
 
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