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I know it's been a topic of debate but not everyone has had such great luck with EFI and as long I can't get the software to maintain my own fuel system I'm not interested. I'm more opposed to the manufacturers maintaining ownership of the software then the physical system itself. That's a piece of the vehicle you have no ownership or control over and makes you completely reliant on them. Plus the highest elevation in Nova Scotia is under 800 feet.
 

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I totally agree. Injection is awesome right up to the point you can't get the diagnostic service software to work on it yourself.
 

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Not much serviceable on EFI because 99% of users will never need to address the EFI system.
The 1% that need to do such things will have the know how. Actually really easy with some education, tech tools and your cell phone. Far easier than any carb with less mystery. I think I spent $20 on a interphase and with my Mac am able to do all sorts of amazing things to about any cars EFI. Try that on a carburetor car.

Interesting Concept that one cannot enjoy the benefits EFI as you don't have software access etc to modify to your specs.

So how do you handle your Electronic Ignition? Home oscilloscope? Or did you install points ignition with a mechanical advance? I always hated trying to change them little springs and weights to change a curve.
Having worked professionally with both systems, Id have to say one needs far more education and tools to cope with Points over EFI
but my hats off to anyone who does that so they can. Thats sticking to your principles.
I once converted an old Harley from electronic back to stock points for a guy. Lasted for a while till he got tired of having to come to me for a tune up on a constant basis (points wear). He had the delusion that he could do his own tunes as he heard it was easy and had an app. He gave in when a backfire near busted his ankle. Backfire after he tried adjusting his timing (depends on points).

With todays fuels, carbs just are not going to work well. The high alcohol content is hard on components and does function better with some sort of feedback control system hard to manage without digital electronics. Alcohol also presents big trouble for air cooled motors. The lower heat value causes the motor to generate more heat during combustion. Thus fueling becomes a very important.
Modern systems have this issue in mind and can compensate automatically when ignition and fueling work together.
 

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Working with points is a piece of cake (if you were brought up with them like myself)

How do I deal with EFI – fairly simple- I have the car towed to the garage, where a mechanic charges me up to 200 bucks to plug a laptop into it, then tells me how much more it will cost to fix it

To a degree, it’s a “generational” thing, and what you’re comfortable with I guess. The ease of “fire and forget” EFI (until it goes wrong), against the endless faffing about with pitted points. One system costs pennies, but means getting your hands dirty once in a while, the other involves 250 bucks just to diagnose a fault, but you save on the soap.

Reminds me of “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”

The cruel truth perhaps, is that we now live in an age of “convenience”, and thus EFI is expected – but it’s still nice knowing how to set up three pairs of points without a strobe

Each to their own ….
 

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I looked over the VV at my local dealer just a few weeks ago. He had VVs in stock and the same price as the TW which he claims he only brings in on special orders. He claims in a side by side comparison the VV outsells the TW. I digress, first thing I see as a benefit is the EFI. That is a nice improvement but is also negated by the lack of a kick starter. Think about it, if the engine is not running and the battery takes a crap you are SOL with EFI. I doubt you could even bump start the bike if there is no electric going to the EFI. This is all just my thinking on the matter and I have no personal knowledge about how it all works.
My next thought when comparing the VV to the TW is as simple as the 30+ years of parts interchangeability with the TWs, not so much with the VV and when many models of bikes continually keep changing the incidence of parts being discontinued becomes and ever present issue. Just imagine if on the older TWs they quit making the air box to carb boots. That would be a monumental problem in keeping the carb running right. On my BW350 which was a 2 year only machine there are many, many parts that are simply not available today unless you find them used from salvage yards. Just try to find a 37 tooth rear offset sprocket.

GaryL
 

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Anytime I have seen a dealer selling both the VanVan and TW the prices have been exactly the same. Never saw one even $1.00 less than the other.
I really like the way the VanVan looks and as someone mentioned earlier it would be a street rider instead of a Scooter. At least the TW can pretend to be trail worthy right off the showroom floor and you can pretty much take it from there as to how much you want to bolt-on or modify. The VanVan does not do that at all so more of a blank canvass. But if you have to change so much on a brand-new bike then maybe a different bike is in order?

Thinking aloud... I have never ever actually seen a VanVan riding on the street or even parked and I think they have been out for at least 2 years, right? This is their 3rd coming up. I don't think they are unpopular because something is wrong with them. I think they are just "ahhh, yeah, that's nice" but folks are not jumping out window to buy one. Hence perhaps why you don't see that many used ones.

The round headlight is a lot nicer than the square one on the TW. I think that's what I like about the round headlamp mods guys do on their TW's.
Carb vs. EFI? I've never had an issue with the carb on the TW. But it would be nice to have EFI. Not a deal breaker.

Here's a video (below link) of a guy riding supposedly "off-road". I call it "not-on-the-street". My brother does the same thing with his 900cc Star motorcycle when he's not on pavement.
Looks like a stock VanVan going up and down the same hill and also looks like fun. Decent enough but for that price-point and what you would have to do even adding a real set of 50-50 tires I'd be getting a real Dual-Sport from Suzuki already put together the right way. It's a street bike!

 

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I heard that Jackrabbit yell "WTF?" as he hopped by!
 

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I doubt the on and off road performance would be much different between the TW and the VanVan. Same weight, power and budget suspension. I just looked up the specs and the VV has a .5 litre smaller tank than the stock TW plus I could not find any aftermarket tanks available. Unlike the odd 32 spoke TW wheels the VV has 36 spoke wheels which means they can be laced up to many other bikes. Ooooohh the possibilities! The seat on the VV just screams comfort and I would not worry about Japanese fuel injection. My injected Toyota is 33 years old and still runs awesome. I would like to try a Van Van but would only consider buying one if I knew I could get a bigger tank. I think the reason the Van Van does not sell well in North America is that it is not the prettiest bike out there and unfortunately most people buy bikes based on looks. Suzuki discontinued the GW250 a couple years ago because they could not sell them and I'm pretty sure it was because they were an ugly duckling. I rode one and will say it was one of the most impressive bikes I have ever ridden. Yes I am open to a Suzuki Van Van.
 

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Peterb: "...budget suspension...".
That is the kindest description of TW boing-ers I have ever heard!

I've had dozens of bikes with carbs and 4 with EFI, plus a number of cars & trucks.
I'd take EFI every time. Never a single problem, never had to mess with them.
Air/oil cooling is a plus
Exhaust is even uglier than TW!

I think the V Vs are pretty cool.
But I still like my TDub better!

The V V comes with cool Dunlop K180 tires. They have a "flat track" tread pattern and make a pretty decent flat track tire. They are DOT street legal, not race-only. Not made for heavy duty rough off-road. More street and moderate off-road use.
I recently put a set on my TW (not because the V V runs them!) and all the results are not in yet but so far on paved and "prepared" dirt, gravel and caliche roads and some rougher, I really like them.
So, if that's the kind of riding you are into you might consider them at next change.

More info here:
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
actually 6hp more on the RV200 in stock form aprx 25% hop up from the TW HP wise

edit- funny when I bought my RV200 a year ago I was finding hp ratings showing 21hp but now it's actually hard to find any spec chart with hp included and the few I found are showing 16hp same as the TW

Mandella effect at least for me lol
 

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I added a VanVan to my garage recently, so here are my thoughts on it.

It serves nearly the exact same category as the TW. Major differences are...
1. The comfy couch-like saddle.
2. Painless fuel injection.
3. Retro-funk design.
4. The VV seems 65/35 steet/dirt vs the TW's 40/60.

With only a few hundred miles on it so far, I am finding it just a fun (and comfy) run-around. Suitable for backroad/trail exploring and suburban commuting. The thing is just fun and has been dragged out every warmish winter day to test it's mettle a bit more.

It's been dropped from Suzuki's line-up stateside, but I believe it's still chugging along in Europe with it's 125cc sibling. I think it was really the declining number US riders (especially the younger crowd) that got it pulled here.

If I lived more rural, the TW would have been the choice. But for the suburban tarmac with forays in both urban and rural areas, the VV arguably has more going for it.
 
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