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Discussion Starter #1
I finally figured out how to post pictures of the forum. You might believe my stories more readily now.




Set off fishing into the mountains yesterday, stopping at the local pub, pizzeria, post office and store to get post and some bread and milk before they shut. Left the stuff at the pub which would be open when I got back. Met Rod (nickname Faulty) who had taken his 26 year old Suzuki 650 out for a ride on a beautiful spring day.







I admired the Victory's chrome and curve. Rod is confirmed bachelor and she takes pride of place in his living room where you might find a wife in another house. He rebuilt her from derelict condition some years back. Now he is lving in the countryside he reckons he has another roadbike he is selling and will buy something else for the dirt roads like the TW which he admired. He said he is looking at a Honda CTX 200. They have been the TWs competitor on the farms here since the 80s. You can buy them complete with racks quite a bit cheaper than the TW. Those of you in the first world won't know them since they were not aimed at or sold in that market. I did a little research:



http://www.visordown.com/features/honda-ctx200-vs-lesotho/17830.html



http://trailriderreports.blogspot.com/2006/10/bike.html



I went fishing down at the river on a mountain track that the fishing club said is four wheel drive only. I did well with one wheel drive and went where 4x4s can't go to get through rocks and swamps right onto the river. The Brown trout were not feeding in the river but on the way back the rainbows were rising in the lake which was stocked a year ago by the club when they took it over, but is still closed while the fish grow.



I had to stop and watch. It was a bit frustrating and the Nikon could not do justice to the sunset colours with our Inhlosane mountain reflecting on the water.







I stopped back at the pub on the way and had a few beers with the owner. His manager rides a chinese 250 Bashan to work which costs nearly a third of the price of a TW but he has had more problems with his new bike than I have had with my 1995 TW. You can see his bike skulking in the background.



I have found another 1995 for sale an hour away which I might buy as a spares department or as a project to make a pavement commuter. R3500 is $438. What do you think?



http://durban.gumtree.co.za/c-Cars-Vehicles-motorcycles-motorbikes-scooters-YAMAHA-TW-200-OFF-ON-ROAD-SCRAMBLER-W0QQAdIdZ316528651



The guy says he spent nearly that much at Yamaha on engine spares and has a good CDi. Am going to go and look at it and take my bike on the van to see if it will run with his CDi. He says he has the parts missing off the bike in the picture but abandoned ship whern the payments never came. If I offer him less say $400 it will still be worth it in spares methinks.



Malcolm





 

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Oh, yeah. Even with your great writing style pictures make the story so much better. Looks like you have some beautiful country to ride in, and when they open the lake you'll have some great fishing too, with surroundings like that. What muffler is that on your bike? Good luck on picking up the spares bike.
 

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Thanks B-Dub. That's whatever the Dept of Agric got made up custom stainless to replace the stock which would have rusted some time into the bike's career as a civil servant. They are quite expensive. She was also issued with an o-ring chain which never requires adjustment. She is still enjoying farm life but more for the good times on a Sunday fishing than Monday morning cold starts.



You can see more country on this guy's blog. You will also see some T-Dubs that flocked together with the Hondas showing that in South Africa discrimination over colour or creed is no longer policy.



http://trailriderreports.blogspot.com/2010/01/ode-to-small-bike-with-big-heart.html



Malcolm
 

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Thanks B-Dub. That's whatever the Dept of Agric got made up custom stainless to replace the stock which would have rusted some time into the bike's career as a civil servant. They are quite expensive. She was also issued with an o-ring chain which never requires adjustment. She is still enjoying farm life but more for the good times on a Sunday fishing than Monday morning cold starts.



You can see more country on this guy's blog. You will also see some T-Dubs that flocked together with the Hondas showing that in South Africa discrimination over colour or creed is no longer policy.



http://trailriderreports.blogspot.com/2010/01/ode-to-small-bike-with-big-heart.html



Malcolm


Can't justify spending the bucks for an o-ring chain for this bike, get plenty of miles from the cheap non OEM chains.

Just use a little gear oil on the cheap chains they will last a long time.
 

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The thing is Ziggy that the government spent our taxes on the o-ring chain when she was their property and now I get the benefit of it. Sorry if my story telling is a tad obtuse. . .
 

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Unfortunately we only got the "boy racer" versions of the CTX, AG200's and the like, mostly in XT/DR/XL form.



There's a place for a real seat, racks that hold more than a sandwich, chaincases, meaningful stock engine armor etc. Wish it was here.



This may be as close as a lot of us ever get to Africa, so keep it coming.



Oh, and if you happen to see an old AG seat, racks or engine bars just lying around anywhere...
 

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Oh, and if you happen to see an old AG seat, racks or engine bars just lying around anywhere...
+1 I wonder what it would cost to post "scrap metal" from Africa?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
As much or more as the other way around which is why I don't qualify for Gerry's cycle rack competition and will have to make my own by commandeering a pipe bender somewhere.



BTW since the subject of chains came up again. The CTX Bushlander comes with an o-ring chain. Honda understood that the last thing a farmer wants to do is spend more on modifying a new machine to make it low maintenance and crash protected. That and beating the Yamaha price of TWs explains why the TW is not doing the quantities over here any more and is not in the showrooms while the CTX is. Just did a price check and you can get a new one off the floor for nearly US$1000 less than a TW which has to be ordered.



So the TW is more exclusive one could say. . .
 

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One of the Aussies modified AG skid bars to fit his TW on the old forum. IIRC the front was a bolt-on and he had to do some funny buisiness with the rear hook. Bet you could widen a front and rear rack to suit, as well.



Or just send two of everything to me and I'll do all the necessary adapting
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the tip. We have an old Indian scrap bike dealer here. His yard is worth a scratch. He just tore up a very worn old TW.
 

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The thing is Ziggy that the government spent our taxes on the o-ring chain when she was their property and now I get the benefit of it. Sorry if my story telling is a tad obtuse. . .
To me is like they (government) don't even exist if I choose not to notice.

Aside from that I am into my 4th chain using cheap, I am thinking that the decision to go with it was right. If I install an o-ring on mine I will not have to adjust regularly though it will probably be a heavier chain, and for the cost it would probably even out.

Thanks for sharing
 

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To me is like they (government) don't even exist if I choose not to notice.

Aside from that I am into my 4th chain using cheap, I am thinking that the decision to go with it was right. If I install an o-ring on mine I will not have to adjust regularly though it will probably be a heavier chain, and for the cost it would probably even out.

Thanks for sharing


How much are you spending on each chain? I think I paid like $65 for a good quality o-ring chain, and it seems unlikely that you could get four junk chains for that price
 

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Discussion Starter #13
qwerty dealt with this on the "learnt a few things thread"



I must say I appreciate the knowledge. I kind of knew that o-rings were better and got one for my old XT500 after a cheapie lost its rollers a few days ride from home 25 years ago. But having been educated by qwerty on the subject, I can now tell you why. Mine is a DiD and has been on the bike so long the orings are showing slight perishing cracks. I take better care of it as a result and give it an on bike shampoo and wax once it is covered in mud or dust.



Short article on chain tensile strength.

http://sidewinderspr...om/tensile.html

It isn't rocket science.



428 chain tensile strength and common prices

0-ring

5300 $69

5340 $79

7000 $100

open

3970 $16

4000 $16

4200 $30

5060 $51

5280 $34

5500 $34

5840 $45



There are only two reasons to run an open chain. The first is to prevent a tiny bit of parasitic power loss. The second is some people simply enjoy mucking around in solvents and hot oils.



The parasitic loss of rings is so tiny most riders wouldn't be able to tell the difference. If you're competing or hyper-miling, by all means, a well-maintained open chain is the way to go. Of course, this assumes the open chain is perfectly maintained at all times. It doesn't take much neglect for the pins and rollers to dry out, water to intrude into the chain and causing corrosion, and/or metal-to-metal contact between the plates to create significant parasitic drag exceeding that of rings by quite a bit.



Of course, there are those who go zen-like when maintaining their motorcycles. By all means, those folks should have open chains. Back in the olden days when all chains were open I'd always buy 2 chains--one to be used while the other was being maintained. Super easy to swap chains simply by hooking one to each pin of the master link--pulling the chain off the bike pulled the other chain on the bike at the same time. Hook up the master link and go. That eliminated the most anti-zen chore of feeding the replacement chain over the countershaft sprocket. Swapping chains often kept both and the sprockets wearing evenly. With two chains the bike was never down for chain maintenance and I never had to rush the solvent bath/drip dry/heated oil soak/drain maintenance process, an attribute of the maintenance program that prevents the need to get the bike bike on the road quickly from mucking up the mental state pursued in doing the maintenance in the first place.



Maybe these zensters should by a Harley and a variety of soaps, buckets, cleaners, polishes, waxes, rags, towels, dusters, applicators. It should be an old Harley, with a chain. An open chain. Then they'll never have to ride at all! They can forever wash, clean, wax, dust, polish, and dabble in solvents and hot oil and drink beer to their hearts' content.



Cheap chains are a false economy because when they wear they ruin the sprockets. By the time you factor in 4 times the sprockets and gaskets and oil, you've spent ~3 times has much as if you would have spent the extra $20 for a good chain in the first place. Worse, folks often sell the bike rather than deal with the hassles of replacing the chain and sprockets. This is especially true if one takes the bike to a dealer for replacement. I couldn't afford to ride at all if I had to pay a dealer for repairs and maintence. One rarely finds a used TW with more than a few thousand miles on it with decent chains and srpockets. Hmmmm?



A well-maintained open chain will last just as long as an o-ring chain of equal tensile strength. A squirt of lube every ride isn't "well-maintained", but it certainly helps an open chain. A squirt of lube may be all the maintenance a chain gets while on a trip, though, but as soon as possible after a trip an open chain should be treated to the full maintenance procedure. All this maintenance costs money. Even if your time is worth nothing because you're a total bum, the money is still a factor, especially if you're a total bum who doesn't have any.



O-ring chains thrive on neglect. All that is necessary is enough lube to keep them from rusting. An occasional squirt of lube is all the maintenance an o-ring chain needs. Subject a cheap open chain and sprockets to the necessary maintenance an o-ring chain requires, which is pretty much what most riders do, and the o-ring set will easily last 6-8 times as long as the cheap open set. If you ride a lot, the o-ring set will save $250-300 of the life of the chain simply in replacement costs.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This should all go into a sticky in the technical area.



A quick wiki makes it a no brainer too:



The o-ring chain is a specialized type of roller chain used in the transmission of mechanical power from one sprocket to another.

[edit] Construction

The o-ring chain is named for the rubber o-rings built into the space between the outside link plate and the inside roller link plates. Chain manufacturers began to include this feature in 1971 after the application was invented by Joseph Montano while working for Whitney Chain of Hartford, Connecticut. O-rings were included as a way to improve lubrication to the links of power transmission chains, a service that is vitally important to extending their working life. These rubber fixtures form a barrier that holds factory applied lubricating grease inside of the pin and bushing wear areas. Further, the rubber o-rings prevent dirt and other contaminants from entering the inside of the chain linkages, where such particles would otherwise cause significant wear.

[edit] Applications



O-ring chains are most notably used in motorcycles, one of the most demanding applications for a metal chain. High rpm and heavy loads require bulky chains, but such engineering increases the effect of friction compared to lighter chains. So lubrication plays a vital role here, but the high rpm also make it very difficult to keep lubrication inside and on the chain. Additionally, motorcycle chains are exposed to a large volume of contaminants and particles and must be protected. O-rings, as described above, fit this application perfectly.


This experiment shows that kerosese is a good cleaner . . .

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345397



But this expert wants to flog you a special lube since he doubts if kerosene followed by wax is optimal. Interesting . . .
 

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How much are you spending on each chain? I think I paid like $65 for a good quality o-ring chain, and it seems unlikely that you could get four junk chains for that price
I am running a Tsubaki now, not bad, think it was about 22 bucks. Before this one I just don't recall but I don't like it when they get to long, they derail. I've had my mule for a heck of a long time now and over the time I've had it I put on 4 new chains. Can't say which brand is better or not as good.

If I were to get an o-ring and it streches beyond the 9th setting I would have to get a new and I know that would hurt, they are about 80 plus shipping.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Saw Rod again the other night and he is an old school bike builder who now wants to ride the dirt tracks and sell one of his pavement specials. He had never heard of o-ring chains and is from the days of cook em in grease and cut your own sprockets. now he wants to just ride and spend his free time with his hands clean and was sold on the idea of the o-ring chain. So I guess that for the young and cash strapped with time to service and adventurous enough to have a failed chain a long way from home, open chains are fine. Us old guys give them a wide berth
 
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