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I went tubeless about 10 years ago in both wheels. I used Goop Clear Marine Sealant on each spoke. It took a while because you have to let it dry while the nipples are on top because it a little runny. I put three coats on each. I also used ride on. The only leaks I have had was around the rim.
 

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FWIW, I sealed the front tire on my XT250.
It held air all summer. Did not lose a pound of PSI.

It's in storage for the winter. Will see if the pressure changes in the Spring.





jb
 

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Fred, when you sealed the spokes and added a tubeless valve did you change to a specifically 'tubeless' tyre or just remove the tube from your original 'tube type' and carry on using that? I'm curious as to whether the 'tube type' tyre will seal properly against the rim. Thanks

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buellzebub,

I did a little research (stress little) on the difference between using a tube tire or tubeless "system" in relation to the tire sealing properly against the rim.
My research is highly suspect but this is what I'm thinking. While not mentioning it exactly in the words you and I are looking for, I think/believe what they in the articles are mentioning for a motorcycle tubeless tire to seal properly on a spoked rim has more to do with the spokes not being sealed rather than the tire bead sealing to the outer rim as much if this makes sense.
I believe, if we are using some kind of sealant procedure to seal the spokes, this is satisfying the intent.
Of course, tubed and tubeless tires are made slightly different but I'm leaning to the belief tire construction isn't really our issue if we "seal our spokes" properly.

Tubliss motorcycle tire system. Perhaps this is a different way of "sealing the spokes". Tubliss system has a small inner tube if you will which seals the spokes but it also puts outward pressure on the beads of the tire which I think is the question you're implying for sealing against the rim. It has no main larger tube and in most cases, if you get a puncture, you fix the tire with a tubeless tire repair method.

The weak points of each are similar in that one hopes the spokes don't leak if sealed and the small innertube on the Tubliss system doesn't get a puncture or leak.

I suppose for double protection one could seal the spokes and use the Tubliss motorcycle system. :giggle:

 

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Another thing to consider is the rim itself. Let's assume we somehow sealed the spokes and have no leakage anywhere(spokes, valve, tire seals to the rim completely)
The other difference between tubed and tubeless rim is the bead seating surface. Tubed rims rely on the tube to keep pressure on the bead, so the tire won't debead itself. Tubeless rims have a little hump which makes it harder for the tire to debead, since only thing holding it is air pressure and elasticity of the tire itself. Car rims have this feature too.

Maybe tubeless tires have stiffer bead?

See photos- bartubeless rim has a small hump on the tire seating surface. The other not.
I didn't find other pic.
210734
210733
 

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I didn't explain it in my questions but this is my concern, and hence why I was asking whether those that had done it had used a tubed or tubeless tyre due to the different bead and/or sidewall construction.

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well. one thing is for sure, there is not a lot of tyres for TW to choose from in the first place and further to further shrink your choice? :D
 

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Exactly! So it would almost certainly have to be a tubed type. However, it's not like we'll be barrelling down a twisty lane at near triple figures dragging a knee and scraping the pegs, so I'm sure it'll be fine!

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and if there was a real issue with tyre debeading or slipping on the rim, I would assume there would be quite few experiences of it on the internet..

I am pursuing tubeless conversion because of mainly one factor. first one is weight, particularly unsprung and rotating mass. ( this also got me researchng if anyone could make a newer and lighter rim for the TW, maybe even custom hub with rear disc brake? but only when disc would be lighter than drum, which is to be measured). the second small one is ease of plugging a hole on the go.
 

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Another thing to consider is the rim itself. Let's assume we somehow sealed the spokes and have no leakage anywhere(spokes, valve, tire seals to the rim completely)
The other difference between tubed and tubeless rim is the bead seating surface. Tubed rims rely on the tube to keep pressure on the bead, so the tire won't debead itself. Tubeless rims have a little hump which makes it harder for the tire to debead, since only thing holding it is air pressure and elasticity of the tire itself. Car rims have this feature too.

Maybe tubeless tires have stiffer bead?

See photos- bartubeless rim has a small hump on the tire seating surface. The other not.
I didn't find other pic.
View attachment 210734 View attachment 210733
...and to throw you off trail so-to-speak, the stock rear rim has the tubeless hump you are referring too so in my mind, if you seal the spokes, you'll be fine with whatever rear tire you want to use, tubed or tubeless. TW-Brian showed a picture of this hump on a stock rear TW rim. I confirmed this with one of my spare stock rear TW rims.

I don't know if the front rim has the hump as my spare front tire has a tire on it or I would look.
 

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...and to throw you off trail so-to-speak, the stock rear rim has the tubeless hump you are referring too so in my mind, if you seal the spokes, you'll be fine with whatever rear tire you want to use, tubed or tubeless. TW-Brian showed a picture of this hump on a stock rear TW rim. I confirmed this with one of my spare stock rear TW rims.

I don't know if the front rim has the hump as my spare front tire has a tire on it or I would look.
Good to know! Thanks for specifying
 
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Arrowsmith, what tyres do you use, tubed or tubeless type? Any photos? Thanks.
****
Stock rear tire and Shinko 241 on front. My question would be, What is holding a tube tire on the rim when air is gone? What holds a tubeless tire on the rime when air is gone? As near as I can see it would not be the tube.
 

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...and to throw you off trail so-to-speak, the stock rear rim has the tubeless hump you are referring too so in my mind, if you seal the spokes, you'll be fine with whatever rear tire you want to use, tubed or tubeless. TW-Brian showed a picture of this hump on a stock rear TW rim. I confirmed this with one of my spare stock rear TW rims.

I don't know if the front rim has the hump as my spare front tire has a tire on it or I would look.
I just checked a space front that I have and the front does not have a “safety” hump on it like the rear does.

My Africa twin is setup the same way, tube tires but the rear has a safety hump, the front does not. The Outex tubeless kit is pretty popular with Africa Twin owners and the general consensus is that the front is fine so long as you keep the pressure up over 25psi. Not sure how well that would work on a TW especially for those of us that like to drop pressure for off road. It doesn’t work for me on the AT as well since I also like to drop pressure in that. I want to do tubeless on that someday and I think I will bite the bullet and buy proper rims for both ends when I do it.

The other issue on the rear is the tire itself. Unless you put some sort of tubeless tire on it it will always be leaking air. Tube type tires don’t have the membrane on the inside of the carcass that a tubeless has which is what makes it hold air. The raw rubber won’t hold air by itself hence the membrane. It may hold for a while but you will be filling them back up constantly.

I have thought about doing a tubeless conversion for my Duro but I have not gotten around to it yet. While it can be fixed in the field it’s a challenge and just popping a plug in should I get a flat would be so much easier.


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Stock rear tire and Shinko 241 on front. My question would be, What is holding a tube tire on the rim when air is gone? What holds a tubeless tire on the rime when air is gone? As near as I can see it would not be the tube.
On a tube tire a lot of times the bead pops off when you get a flat, it’s happened to me a lot. Tubeless will too eventually but the “safety hump” in the rim holds it there for a while.

This article helps explain it all.
https://bestrestproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Tube-Tires-VS-Tubeless-Tires.pdf


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On a tube tire a lot of times the bead pops off when you get a flat, it’s happened to me a lot. Tubeless will too eventually but the “safety hump” in the rim holds it there for a while.
Then why would it matter if you are running a tube tire without a tube. Either one could come off the rim.
 
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