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Discussion Starter #1
This is kinda a Hypothetical. Many have built up the 200 motor for more power, bigger clutch, reasons, reasons, etc. etc.

So if we could have a Yamaha TW from the factory with a second motor option, what does everyone agree would be a "realistic" size for the bike, but enough difference to notice power & happy to pay the extra costs.

Ideally, I would like to see all the "best" of the other Yamaha motors added into this "new" option. I.E. 6 Gears? THE DURNED KICK START return. Bigger Clutch, Lets make the list of those in replies below, and I can add it all together on a concluding post.

OH, the most important of this "mystery engine". Should/Could be able to drop into our old 200 bikes with Little to NO mods needed (just carb jets, and air box mod)... is this possible? Have I missed anything obvious other than more fuel and air? Can the CV or TK Carb even take up to 300cc's?

What should said motor cost us if we purchase complete from Yamaha?

1. Motor Size in cc ?

2. Add-ons to make it the ultimate? Provide specifics of what or from where...

3. Cost?

4. Would anyone actually buy it and swap out the 200cc ?


Please refrain from ALL your 2 Wheel hopes and dreams for the TW200, just stay focused on the motor and trans for now.

This is just for fun currently, but serious questions since I WANT TO LOBBY YAMAHA for a future option with real consumer inputs. This bike is not going anywhere (hopefully not famous last words).

Thanks All!




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bore increase horsepower hp torque mpg mod mods updated bigger power xt ttr xt250 ttr230 head cylinder bored wheelie machine thumper
 

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I would say a really "tractory", XR-like motor at 350cc would be it, with minor brake, suspension, and swing arm upgrades (1 to 1.5 inch increase for each). Less than that and it would still bog sometimes / more and you'd need a new chassis -- meaning it wouldn't be a TW. Maybe 30 horsepower and 23 foot pounds at around 7,500/6,500 RPM... This would open up 65 mph cruising and much bigger hill climbs. Of course, IMO, this would never ever happen, but it doesn't hurt to dream.
 
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For distance/highway, a 350 cc twin, but that adds weight and my CL350 was a great commuter, but rather heavy for the dirt.
The 1140 cc motor in my CB1100 is 200# of its 540#, wet.
To fit the frame, than perhaps a 300 cc single...but keep the carb.

The most fun I ever had, off-road, was my AT2 (1973-1979), converted to 175cc or my wife's CT2.
See photo, then envision laydown license plate, a Preston Petty plastic front fender and expansion chamber.

At 230# (49# less than TW200), it was easy to pickup after a spill or load/unload from a pickup.
Not the best suspension, probably close to the TW200, but OK for moderate jumps
Top speed only low 70s, but it got there fairly quick and wheelies were easy.

Don't think the EPA will let us go back to light weight 2 strokes, so I appreciate Fred's comment: "Maybe just enjoy the bike for what it is."

Yamaha CT2.jpg

Did not intend to dampen the thread...so, let's see what others propose.
 

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Engine tranny? The problem with simply upgrading the engine is that some states a larger engine means younger riders could not ride it on the street. So I like the option as you suggested.

The TW200 is meant to be a street able trail bike. I like that! Don't want that to change. Don't need a speed demon on the street. Just a little more street able.

Transmission:
1. Clearly 6 speeds! It would be nice is the transmission was more friendly to 2nd gear starts. The idea being that is the 1st gear was a little lower geared for times when the traction is there and the feet are down. The second gear was between where 1 and 2 are currently. Like old trucks that had a granny gear. Never really use 1st unless under a load or a need. Skip it and go directly to second gear most of the time.

The engine:
1. clearly we need the kick starter. When off in the wild and the battery runs down. Leaving out the kick starter is like STUPID for a TRAIL BIKE that is used on the street.
2. The charging system could use a small upgrade. Not a lot but for the times when using the starter a lot. another 5% or 10% without a kick starter is a big deal.
3. displacement a bump up would be good but I really don't want it to go crazy. I want a trail bike that doesn't guzzle gas.
4. better balancing in the engine. I have not reved my new bike out yet. Going to wait for the break in miles to be done. But my last bike began vibrating a little to much at full tilt. It got better when I added the 15 tooth so I din't need to rev so much at speed. I actually only ran all out for short distances. But balance seemed to be a issue.
5. oil cooler. Would like a small oil cooler on it.
 

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my ttr226 6spd build/swap has been nothing but smiles since it was completed. the 6-speed is really nice when on slab, and the extra oomph is nice for hills or popping the back end out.

that said i lost in a head to head with tony's 214... so i'm sure i could get more out of mine with jetting and such.
 

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+1 on the oil cooling.
 
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2 stroke 250cc with kickstart like the TY250/TW200 hybrid that drove to the North Pole. Including the same handles still available on the new XTs. And no fuel injection. Basically I'd just like to see that hybrid for sale.

Now that I see the 300 suggestion maybe split the dual... a 4 stroke road version and 2 stroke off road. The Husqvarna 300s looks nimble despite their high displacement and are lighter then 4 strokes..
 

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6th gear for sure. A bullet proof carbureted engine with 30hp that hits 100 mpg, any size is good as long as it hits the hp.
 

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6th gear would be nice..funny thing is even a yz125 2 stroke has 35 hp. We really need to save the endangered 2 stroke.
Maybe you could be the first to put that yz125 engine on the TW. It sounds like the way you ride you would need much better suspension though. The 2 strokes are lighter though which would help suspension some.
 

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TW enhancements ?
They seem to have done pretty well for 30 or so years the way they are ?
Well.........
Perhaps a just a little more power, 225 cc.
Fuel injection, I know some still want a carb.
A little more suspension.
Think I've only ridden 2 up once, for a half km.
Would like a better solo seat and a factory standard rear rack.
Different stock front tire would be my first request.
Brighter front light with a wider beam.
A more responsive and tougher clutch.
Some make a case for six speeds,
I think five speeds with a slightly wider space between each gear, ending with a higher top end.
A larger gas tank.
Those items aside, current stock is pretty good.
 

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+1 on the 6 speed with granny low. I would pair that with something like a CG200 which has approximately the same power as a TW but more "tractory" as someone else said, and has no timing chain because it is a pushrod motor with a gear driven cam. The CG also (like XLs and XRs) has its ignition trigger at ~30-35 degrees BTDC so it can use a simple CDI instead of an overly-complicated one.
And of course, kick start.

I'm not in the market for a new TW. But I might be in the market for an engine like that to go in my existing one.

Actually Lifan makes that very engine, except that it is a 5 speed. I have one. I would like to see them adapt that engine to the TW, with the extended countershaft supported by a pressure lubed bearing at the end just like a TW. I would probably buy one; I would have no problem riding a Yamafan or Lifamaha! :laughing1:
 

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6th gear would be nice..funny thing is even a yz125 2 stroke has 35 hp. We really need to save the endangered 2 stroke.
Honestly at this point, I'm pretty convinced that two strokes are no longer endangered. I see them coming back with a bang. KTM's got the EFI on them now, and that's huge. Yamaha and Beta are still offering them as well (and both are competitive). Sherco and GasGas also have brand new, cutting-edge enduro two strokes. In fact, I rode with a girl about a year ago, on a hard enduro trail ride here in SoCal. She's legitimately pro, and just took first in a hare and hound (I think it was in Indiana or something. Can't remember for sure...). Anyway, she races a built Beta Cross Trainer (smaller version of Beta's flagship two stroke race bike) and I can personally attest to the fact that she's crazy good, as is the bike. She was on a borrowed, bone-stock Beta 430 four stroke for that ride, with suspension set up for a 260 pound man. I was barely keeping up until I got tired about an hour in, and my eyes were burning badly from my dust allergy...and I'm fairly certain she was only cruising, LOL. Three or four of us were out front on a large group ride (100 plus riders), so didn't have anyone to follow. That's one of those rides that will always be remembered! I think within 25 years, all of the major manufacturers will offer DFI two strokes. I can easily see Honda bringing them back inside of five years, and maybe Suzuki, too, if it can start to get its act together... Imagine a 2020, fuel injected CR500 with an aluminum frame. While I'm at it, oil injection and a plate, too (but probably not...). LOL
 
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WECSOG: Those gear driven cams are really nice setups. It's the way to go, IMO.
 

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Honestly at this point, I'm pretty convinced that two strokes are no longer endangered. I see them coming back with a bang. KTM's got the EFI on them now, and that's huge. Yamaha and Beta are still offering them as well (and both are competitive). Sherco and GasGas also have brand new, cutting-edge enduro two strokes. In fact, I rode with a girl about a year ago, on a hard enduro trail ride here in SoCal. She's legitimately pro, and just took first in a hare and hound (I think it was in Indiana or something. Can't remember for sure...). Anyway, she races a built Beta Cross Trainer (smaller version of Beta's flagship two stroke race bike) and I can personally attest to the fact that she's crazy good, as is the bike. She was on a borrowed, bone-stock Beta 430 four stroke for that ride, with suspension set up for a 260 pound man. I was barely keeping up until I got tired about an hour in, and my eyes were burning badly from my dust allergy...and I'm fairly certain she was only cruising, LOL. Three or four of us were out front on a large group ride (100 plus riders), so didn't have anyone to follow. That's one of those rides that will always be remembered! I think within 25 years, all of the major manufacturers will offer DFI two strokes. I can easily see Honda bringing them back inside of five years, and maybe Suzuki, too, if it can start to get its act together... Imagine a 2020, fuel injected CR500 with an aluminum frame. While I'm at it, oil injection and a plate, too (but probably not...). LOL
Cool! That would be better news if they weren't fuel injected. EFI is really convenient for the dealers to service them. Not so much for us. If I could convert one to carb I'd consider it. I would be more into EFI if I could buy the software to adjust it myself. Until then EFI is blacklisted.
 

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Cool! That would be better news if they weren't fuel injected. EFI is really convenient for the dealers to service them. Not so much for us. If I could convert one to carb I'd consider it. I would be more into EFI if I could buy the software to adjust it myself. Until then EFI is blacklisted.
Personally, I'm (or, again, uh, was...) pretty infatuated with the EFI on the smokers. With dual injection setups and current programming technology, so much is possible (getting the mix perfect in every condition, all the time, easy tuning maps with a few pushes of a button, instead of changing jets and needles). \

But I get it, if you like carbs :) The new YZ250X is still carbureted, and it's wonderful for enduro. I've ridden those and I would say that was my second-favorite two stroke (next to the CR500).



 

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As much as I’d like a sixth gear and a bit more power I honestly question the ability of the current suspension and chassis of handling more. The more power and speed we get from a TW the worse the budget suspension will perform and the chassis geometry may not be indicative of faster speeds.

I love my TW as is (granted I have done a bit to mine to fit me better). But I would say I would also like to pic up a second duel sport with better suspenders and stronger engine. But to do so you loose that tractor like gearing/engine and the ultra low seat hieght. So I will keep a TW no matter what I do.

I ride with a friend on a Modded YZ250F (now a 290cc). He has far superior power and suspension and even much lower weight to me on the TW. But on some of the trails we ride he can’t do what the TW can without a much bigger struggle. His bike is geared too tall and the engine is built to rev. In fact this spring we planning a trip to these trails and he has asked to borrow my TW or ATV because he just does not find these trails fun on his machine.
 
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