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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Be aware that Owners Manual of a new TW suggests an extended break-in period at ridiculously low power levels that would prevent any trip to Silverton.
Shucks, I had to break those rules on my new TW just to get up my driveway. But no worries on my part.
However many disregard the conservative recommendations and point out that the cross hatching on any new cylinder is there for a reason and needs an initial period of high revs to hone the piston rings to cylinder walls for optimum compression and engine life. That honing only lasts so long and slippery synthetic oil can also diminish the effectiveness of the self-hone.
Don't just take my word for it, do a little research from engine rebuilders or of the actual science involved ( i.e. other than from corporate where their possible warrantee & liability concerns may be more important to them than optimum engine performance).
We will be towing them up there, next summer at the earliest. I will be very careful with the break in. Thanks for the tip!
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Born in Tulsa, but moved to Houston years ago…
We’ve been doing the Jeep trails out of Silverton / Ouray / Telluride since 1975. Silveron is around 9,000 feet and some of the passes are 12,000 ft plus. You will have a much different carb set up for high altitude. If you are just doing the nice wide dirt road north out of Silverton to Animas Forks, stock gearing could work. Any of the 4 wheel drive, high clearance trails would probably need more agressive gearing as well. Enjoy!
We drove an atv last year, saw the bikes and got to thinking.

Why would the gearing matter? Pretend I'm stupid and talk real slow. :)
 

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Because you need low end grunt. A bike geared for the hi way will suck attacking a steep trail especially if it has loose rock or baby head boulders causing a loss of its momentum. Once that is lost, you are screwed trying to take off already on a slope from a dead stop.

It's as simple as going up in teeth on the rear sprocket, or down in the front. Most recommend going max down 2 teeth in the front since it's harder on the chain. You can go up on the rear sprocket all you want, but then after a tooth or 2 you will need a longer chain.

My 650 Vstrom is factory geared at 15/47. I changed it to 14/47 and it absolutely woke up the bike on the trails. A few years ago I chased a bunch of beemers, and other bigger 'proper' ADV bikes up and down 5 mountain passes in one day near Ouray with no problems.....it was the best day riding I have ever had:
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Because you need low end grunt. A bike geared for the hi way will suck attacking a steep trail especially if it has loose rock or baby head boulders causing a loss of its momentum. Once that is lost, you are screwed trying to take off already on a slope from a dead stop.

It's as simple as going up in teeth on the rear sprocket, or down in the front. Most recommend going max down 2 teeth in the front since it's harder on the chain. You can go up on the rear sprocket all you want, but then after a tooth or 2 you will need a longer chain.

My 650 Vstrom is factory geared at 15/47. I changed it to 14/47 and it absolutely woke up the bike on the trails. A few years ago I chased a bunch of beemers, and other bigger 'proper' ADV bikes up and down 5 mountain passes in one day near Ouray with no problems.....it was the best day riding I have ever had:
Ah, I see. I was under the impression that these were geared appropriately for trail riding vs highway. Reading between the lines, are you suggesting I adjust for Oklahoma riding and adjust again when heading to the mountains?

I hadn't really thought of that because I don't plan on any real highway riding in Oklahoma. I live in a small town, work from home (self employed) and really don't drive much on the highways ever. But if it's that simple to adjust I may as well do it!

Am I reading the logic on this correctly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I went to Lake City, CO last summer on my fuel injected quad; pretty bad at 13,000’. The TW will be horrible for the Alpine loop. I’d rejet for sure. Fun trip though.
Ok, I found out what rejet is. Is there a general consensus for jet size per altitude? About 9 months out of the year I'll be in Oklahoma so swapping and getting mountain ready every summer shouldn't be an issue.
 

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Go here: GearingCommander.com and punch in the TW200. It gives a couple of combo's and compares them to stock 14/50 gearing....13/50 and 14/53. Look at the rpm chart and you will see the differences between the two at any speed you punch in. You can also play with your own custom set up's...neat website.

As far as changing the sprocket for Mtn's, vs flat I really think that once you get used to running a few hundred rpm's more, you won't bother swapping. These are not pavement eating road bikes like the 'strom and even on it my 14Tooth front stays on all the time and I usually ride it back and forth from TN to CO/AZ/UT/NM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Go here: GearingCommander.com and punch in the TW200. It gives a couple of combo's and compares them to stock 14/50 gearing....13/50 and 14/53. Look at the rpm chart and you will see the differences between the two at any speed you punch in. You can also play with your own custom set up's...neat website.

As far as changing the sprocket for Mtn's, vs flat I really think that once you get used to running a few hundred rpm's you won'ty bother swapping. These are not pavement eating road bikes like the 'strom and even on it my 14Tooth front stays on all the time and I usually ride it back and forth from TN to CO/AZ/UT/NM.
99% of my local driving will be on 45-55 mph roads. I'm not taking this baby on I-40. Drivers around here suck! Can't merge, on their phone half the time, tail gaiting, etc. I'll be happy to stick to the back roads, which I enjoy even when I'm in my truck.
 

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If you purchase your bikes before too long you will have time before next summer to do the 1,000 miles of "careful" break in for each bike.
If you don't, yet wish to adhere to the Yamaha's recommendations you might as well just leave the bikes in back of haul vehicle 'cause you won't get far on the streets of Silverton at 1/3rd throttle max, much less ride any trails with more than a few degrees of inclination.
While I have not ridden above 13,000 ft on my TWs one of the places I like to ride and take other TW riders entails rides over 2 summits above 11,600 ft coupled with extensive trail riding around 10,000ft. I do not reject. None of my friends on their essentially stock jetted TWs have complained too loudly of un-ridable bikes at those elevations.
Sure, bikes as wells we humans are all down on power due to reduced partial pressures of oxygen in the thin air but we are still functional. A few drilled holes in the airbuses and clean, lightly oiled air filters are about all we do to reduce as much as possible restriction to air flow through engine.

Perhaps those with the voice of first hand experience can share what jetting they have used successfully at 13,000 ft elevations on their TWs. Opinions are nice but nothing beats knowledge gained from real world experience.

Perhaps since I live above 5,000 ft I am already accustomed to compromised performance with increases in elevation, and thus not as sensitive as others. I do know the few times I ride closer to sea level the TWs sure seem friskier.:giggle:

As far as gearing changes it is a personal preference coupled with how steep and technical riding you plan to do, there is no real consensus on this. My idea of "steep & technical" may not match yours, no worries. I do find that gearing down not only yields more useable torque at slow over-the-ground speeds but gives me a few more heartbeats at a lower speed to select the best available line thus reducing stalls and tip-overs. More relaxing too. I think a 10% reduction via a 55 tooth rear sprocket is a good starting point if heading to Colorado high country. Due to air resistance and driveline friction that 10% increase in RPM doesn't exactly translate into a 10% reduction in top speed but your cruising speed will drop a bit. My attitude is if I want to make it to top of a mountain, and arriving at it's base quickly with tall gearing does me no good if that tall gearing then prevents me form summiting. I'ld rather take a little more time arriving if it allows me to achieve my goal.
Of course all of this is relative; tailor you jetting and gearing to your expected conditions and don't take anyone's insistence that you do something too seriously, including anything I may suggest.:cool: For example this mile high snow, rock, ice & mud on a +10% slope from yesterday's ride I considered "medium" and does not begin to tax what 13 x 55 sprockets can achieve at a slow controlled pace.
Snow Vehicle Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Hood
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
If you purchase your bikes before too long you will have time before next summer to do the 1,000 miles of "careful" break in for each bike.
If you don't, yet wish to adhere to the Yamaha's recommendations you might as well just leave the bikes in back of haul vehicle 'cause you won't get far on the streets of Silverton at 1/3rd throttle max, much less ride any trails with more than a few degrees of inclination.
While I have not ridden above 13,000 ft on my TWs one of the places I like to ride and take other TW riders entails rides over 2 summits above 11,600 ft coupled with extensive trail riding around 10,000ft. I do not reject. None of my friends on their essentially stock jetted TWs have complained too loudly of un-ridable bikes at those elevations.
Sure, bikes as wells we humans are all down on power due to reduced partial pressures of oxygen in the thin air but we are still functional. A few drilled holes in the airbuses and clean, lightly oiled air filters are about all we do to reduce as much as possible restriction to air flow through engine.

Perhaps those with the voice of first hand experience can share what jetting they have used successfully at 13,000 ft elevations on their TWs. Opinions are nice but nothing beats knowledge gained from real world experience.

Perhaps since I live above 5,000 ft I am already accustomed to compromised performance with increases in elevation, and thus not as sensitive as others. I do know the few times I ride closer to sea level the TWs sure seem friskier.:giggle:

As far as gearing changes it is a personal preference coupled with how steep and technical riding you plan to do, there is no real consensus on this. My idea of "steep & technical" may not match yours, no worries. I do find that gearing down not only yields more useable torque at slow over-the-ground speeds but gives me a few more heartbeats at a lower speed to select the best available line thus reducing stalls and tip-overs. More relaxing too. I think a 10% reduction via a 55 tooth rear sprocket is a good starting point if heading to Colorado high country. Due to air resistance and driveline friction that 10% increase in RPM doesn't exactly translate into a 10% reduction in top speed but your cruising speed will drop a bit. My attitude is if I want to make it to top of a mountain, and arriving at it's base quickly with tall gearing does me no good if that tall gearing then prevents me form summiting. I'ld rather take a little more time arriving if it allows me to achieve my goal.
Of course all of this is relative; tailor you jetting and gearing to your expected conditions and don't take anyone's insistence that you do something too seriously, including anything I may suggest.:cool: For example this mile high snow, rock, ice & mud on a +10% slope from yesterday's ride I considered "medium" and does not begin to tax what 13 x 55 sprockets can achieve at a slow controlled pace.
View attachment 221595
I'm buying something tomorrow and we're in no rush. Pretty busy this coming summer already and most likely will get our riding legs under us locally and attempt a bikepacking trip in the Summer of 2023. When I said we are hauling the bikes to Colorado I was just clarifying that we won't be driving all the way there. I'll definitely take my time breaking them in properly.

I am very curious to find out how the jetting works at high altitude. As far as the gearing, I'm not planning on going real fast on the highway or competing off road either. Trial and error incoming.

Thanks! That's all good info.
 

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Loved riding with Fred and his alpine area is beautiful. My bike was stock gearing and I am 270. It was struggling a bit as I was at the elevations we were at. Was having a bit of a heart issue at the time and was having a bit of trouble. Had to leave a bit early and get down to sea level that I am accustomed to. I guess for me I need to stay under 8000 ft if I am doing anything strenuous like trying to keep up with Fred.
 

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I'm buying something tomorrow and we're in no rush. Pretty busy this coming summer already and most likely will get our riding legs under us locally and attempt a bikepacking trip in the Summer of 2023. When I said we are hauling the bikes to Colorado I was just clarifying that we won't be driving all the way there. I'll definitely take my time breaking them in properly.

I am very curious to find out how the jetting works at high altitude. As far as the gearing, I'm not planning on going real fast on the highway or competing off road either. Trial and error incoming.

Thanks! That's all good info.
You asked about jetting at altitude. Our engines make their full 14hp at sea level. With all that air available, a nice (big) jet allows lots of fuel in to be atomized and fed into the combustion chamber. At altitude, less air is available, so our “set at sea level” fuel amounts become too rich. We can get the proper air to fuel ratio back with a smaller jet… but power will be down. It’s noticeable. So now, you get the bike running right at altitude, but you’ve “lost” a couple of horsepower. So, you can increase the number of teeth on the rear sprocket to get some climbing advantage back.
I don’t think you mentioned your off-road riding experience. If it is limited, you could take stock TW200’s set up for Oklahoma, trailer them to Silverton, ride the bikes up to Animas Forks, dink around all day and have an absolute great time. A couple of the more difficult Jeep trails come out of the Animas ghost mining town. You could head up one of those trails a quarter of a mile and get a great idea as to what you would like to change when you trailer back to Tuttle. And you will still have a great time! Just my opinion!
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
You asked about jetting at altitude. Our engines make their full 14hp at sea level. With all that air available, a nice (big) jet allows lots of fuel in to be atomized and fed into the combustion chamber. At altitude, less air is available, so our “set at sea level” fuel amounts become too rich. We can get the proper air to fuel ratio back with a smaller jet… but power will be down. It’s noticeable. So now, you get the bike running right at altitude, but you’ve “lost” a couple of horsepower. So, you can increase the number of teeth on the rear sprocket to get some climbing advantage back.
I don’t think you mentioned your off-road riding experience. If it is limited, you could take stock TW200’s set up for Oklahoma, trailer them to Silverton, ride the bikes up to Animas Forks, dink around all day and have an absolute great time. A couple of the more difficult Jeep trails come out of the Animas ghost mining town. You could head up one of those trails a quarter of a mile and get a great idea as to what you would like to change when you trailer back to Tuttle. And you will still have a great time! Just my opinion!
I may do just that. I might go ahead and bring an extra jet or two with me to just adjust while I'm there. Would hate to waste vacation time not doing what we set out to do.
 

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I may do just that. I might go ahead and bring an extra jet or two with me to just adjust while I'm there. Would hate to waste vacation time not doing what we set out to do.
If you search the entire forum for HIGH ALTITUDE RIDING you’ll see a good post from AZExplorer. He was happy with a 122 main jet riding Ophir Pass, not far out of Silverton.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
If you search the entire forum for HIGH ALTITUDE RIDING you’ll see a good post from AZExplorer. He was happy with a 122 main jet riding Ophir Pass, not far out of Silverton.
We drove some of that. Didn't go all the way to Ophir though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Home of the Tigers, Braum's, Jason White, and 3 stop lights... know it well.
It's growing so bloody fast...not sure how much longer we'll be here. It's getting loud and I can't see the stars at night very well anymore. We used to have coyotes in the field every night and deer moving thru the yard frequently. Now I get the police called if I set off fireworks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Just a heads up to anyone looking for a TW200, a member here alerted me to Jones Powersports in Durant, OK, said to talk to Chris for a good deal. He was right, about 900 dollars less in fees than the other guys were wanting to charge. Two of them coming in at the end of the month and they're both mine!
 

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It's growing so bloody fast...not sure how much longer we'll be here. It's getting loud and I can't see the stars at night very well anymore. We used to have coyotes in the field every night and deer moving thru the yard frequently. Now I get the police called if I set off fireworks.
I think AaronSB just said

…it used to be so quiet around here, and now I can’t shoot off fireworks any more!

You got Braum’s! We are jealous! Good news about locating some TW200’s. You will love ‘em.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I think AaronSB just said

…it used to be so quiet around here, and now I can’t shoot off fireworks any more!

You got Braum’s! We are jealous! Good news about locating some TW200’s. You will love ‘em.
Ah yes, good ol Braum's. Thanks, really excited to get started.
 
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