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What “generation” of TW200 would you buy ?


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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What “generation” of TW200 would you buy ?

The “first gen” 1987 - with a funky electrical system, dodgy history of CDI failure, kicker and starter button

The “second gen” 1988 to 2000 — still with kicker, slide carb, and the front drum, no known faults

The “third gen” — no kickstart, CV carb, front disc — a few minor niggles, but nothing insurmountable. The increased generator output was a bonus, depends how many gimmicks you want to run on the bike

The reason I bring this up, is partly to do with the number of ‘87’s bought and sold on the market. Numerically speaking, It’s gonna happen, but I often scratch my head and wonder if the new owners know what they’re getting into

From my point of view, I’m more than happy with my second gen ’98. By then, Yamaha had sorted out the TW, settled down the manufacturing process, and had it about as good as it was going to get. It still had the kicker, slide carb, and the lower generator output has never been an issue

The third gen, although having the disc brake, was let down by the exclusion of the kick start in my opinion, and although it can be “added” afterwards, they are getting slim on the ground. The generator output is as above, but the inclusion of the CV carb (emissions problems) would put me off it — the slide carbs are more responsive

As some of you know, I have a 2007 (225cc) CV carb model, but as it’s a Jap import, it comes with the kick start. Disc/drum, it’s all the same to me on a trail bike, a “properly maintained” drum brake is perfectly comparable to the disc

But let’s get back to the 200 — in light of recent “What should I look for when buying” threads, the question once more rears its head

I realise it can often come down to “what’s available in my area”, and I accept that I landed on my feet with my own TW200 — but “if” you had the choice, what would you choose, and why ? ……..
 

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I voted any, so generic.
As long as it has a kick-starter on it or you can install a kick-starter in it.
 

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I voted for third generation. I like the disk and the extra power for aux lights and heated grips. Maybe I'm just lucky.... but I've never needed a kickstart... I've always managed to get it going with a bump start... once including a push from 3 guys on their way to Sturgis in a flat Wyoming motel parking lot...
 

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Third generation for me. Disc brake, thicker spokes on the front wheel, bolts on the engine side covers instead of JIS screws, better charging system for my heated grips and lights, nicer switch gear for signals etc, trip meter (almost like having a gas guage lol), higher wattage stock headlight bulb. I'm a mechanic and always drove junk cars but I must say I really like owning a newer bike and not having to "restore" it before I can ride it.
 

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Gen. 2 gets my vote if it's a 1988 Black Widow in fabulous shape with stupid low miles and always in a garage being owned by an old geezer like me. I have owned First, Second and Third gen. TWs and would gladly trade the front disc in for a factory installed kicker. Drum Vs disc is all a matter of how well either work and they both are less than adequate any way you cut it.

GaryL
 

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I voted "any...."

However, I have two '87s, and I think they're great!

My friend has a couple of '05s, and I think they're great, also... although I like my kick-starters better than I like his disk brakes!

That said, I'm fairly mechanical, and motorcycle maintenance doesn't bother me. :dontknow:

If you turn your own wrenches, it probably doesn't matter which generation you buy.

If not, then I'd recommend buying the newest/lowest mileage that you can afford (preferably brand new, with a warranty).

If I were buying more for myself, I'd probably actually search out '87s, because they're often less expensive, and I already have spare parts. :eek:ccasion14:
 

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I have a 2nd gen, 1996 with nearly 46,000 miles. The only major work was a valve job and base gasket change. I also had to change my timing chain guides. I rebuilt the carb once. I Kreem Tank lined the tank. I think these were very well made bikes. I have run this bike full throttle at times for a pretty good stretch many times.
 

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i'm waiting for the 4th, injection!
If curious if that will happen. Euro 5 emissions goes into effect for motorcycles in 2020, which requires onboard emissions monitoring/OBD2 functionality. Meaning, EFI with o2 sensors. Being the TW is sold all over the world, I somewhat doubt Yamaha will produce an updated version for Europe, while continuing to make the older carbureted one for areas it's still legal. Either everyone will get the new version, or they'll just drop it from the lineup and direct buyers to the XT250. I'm also guessing Euro 5 will be the death toll for a lot of the older carb'd showroom dinosaurs out there. The KLR650 got killed off essentially in anticipation of this, and the KLR250 got an EFI update. Honda released the 450L, I'm guessing the ancient 650L will get dropped next year with the 450L already there to take it's place. There's been a few other signs that Euro 5 will shake up showrooms a little bit.
 

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I've heard that California will also have new emissions requirements in 2020 with no more carbureted bikes??????
 

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I've heard that California will also have new emissions requirements in 2020 with no more carbureted bikes??????
Maybe, but doubtful. If so, I suppose many more across the border sales will increase for off-road bikes. That, or the "cannister" will just become the size of a watermelon. Anyhow, I will be curious and skeptical but intrigued on an injected Tdub.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
If curious if that will happen. Euro 5 emissions goes into effect for motorcycles in 2020, which requires onboard emissions monitoring/OBD2 functionality. Meaning, EFI with o2 sensors. Being the TW is sold all over the world, I somewhat doubt Yamaha will produce an updated version for Europe, while continuing to make the older carbureted one for areas it's still legal. Either everyone will get the new version, or they'll just drop it from the lineup and direct buyers to the XT250. I'm also guessing Euro 5 will be the death toll for a lot of the older carb'd showroom dinosaurs out there. The KLR650 got killed off essentially in anticipation of this, and the KLR250 got an EFI update. Honda released the 450L, I'm guessing the ancient 650L will get dropped next year with the 450L already there to take it's place. There's been a few other signs that Euro 5 will shake up showrooms a little bit.
I dare say Euro 5 will change a lot of things, but the Suzuki VanVan already has EFI, complete with a CAT exhaust you could club a Brontosaurus into submission with – I suspect that Yamaha will deal with Euro 5 either by adapting the XT EFI, or as you say, ending production – they are unlikely to continue to sell the carb bikes to “compliant” countries, it’s not the way they work

A few years ago, Mercedes stopped making large naturally aspirated engines, opting to go to small turbo charged diesels – a move that is going to bite them in the arse badly as the diesel backlash continues. Re-tooling a production line takes years, so Mercedes must have made that decision a long time ago, when diesel was more popular – around ten years ago at a rough guess. The last of the “real” engines rolled off the production line in 2010, with a couple of years after that to run off existing stock

If Yamaha are still producing the TW200 with Euro 5 looming, they either have the EFI units ready, or production will simply cease once existing stocks run out - Japans emission regs are as stringent as any in the EU, and they will be conscious of their foreign sales markets

Where this leaves us as consumers is debateable. As the owner of a 2009 E350 CGI coupe, and the two bikes in my signature line, happy as a pig in shit – for around 20 years that is

Make hay while the sun shines – the end of an era is in sight ……
 

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I will bet that any new regs for emissions will apply to new machines and the ones already out there will be grandfathered in. Try to tel some classic car guys who have 1969 Hemi Cudda's or old XKE Jags that they can't drive them and you can bet there will be anarchy. What Yamaha decides to do with the TW production is any ones guess at this point. I used to be quite adapt at working on my older cars and trucks with almost all but the most technical systems. Not these days however with everything controlled by a computer and my old timing light has not seen daylight in many years. Try to tell a few of our younger members their bikes need new points and a condenser plus a new distributor cap and they won't have a clue what you are talking about. Long live the TW!

GaryL
 

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School has limited my time lately, but I might weigh in on this one. I bought a 2004 (3rd gen) and proceeded to ride and tweak it this way and that for about 2 years. Then came across an 1987 (1st gen) that had sat in a storage shed in Phoenix for about 12 years. It needed new gaskets, seals, and a carb kit. Electrics have been ok so far. While I love my 3rd gen, given the choice I mostly get on the 87'. It just has a much more responsive motor than the 04'. Some time ago I posted side by side dyno runs of the two bikes and it agreed with my seat of the pants impressions. While they both top out at about 13 hp, the 87's torque curve comes up much sooner then just levels off and stays there all the way up, while the 04's curve builds up to the same level about 2000 rpm later.
While the original CDI in the 87 is prone to fail, the replacements are not. So if you can get a good price on an 87 just calculate the price ($350.00) of a new CDI into the equation before making a decision, or find out if it has already been replaced. At idle the electric output is pretty much nothing, so at a stoplight at night the headlight gets quite dim. If you are thinking about electric dodads, nope on the 87. (On the other hand if you are thinking about one of those big ugly plastic tanks, they aren't much worse than the ugly 87 factory tanks). A very subtle difference is the way the bike responds to big changes in altitude. I am at 1500' but may ride up to 10,000'. While both bike obviously lose power, the CV carb in the 04 seems to do a little better. I have to assume that lower air pressure slows down the slide and needle, while the direct cable carb on the 87 is going rich more severly on quick throttle openings.
So around town riding I would rate them 75:25 for which I get on first. While in the dirt I would rate them 90:10. the 87 is just more fun there. I think it actually boils down to my 04 has a bigger rack. If I need to carry something it gets ridden, otherwise I get on the 87.
The difference is enough that I wondered if my 04 had some issue, but then I got a chance to ride a new TW and it was just like my 3rd gen.
I would have to admit that I have soft spot for the goofy paint of the "Rainbow Warrior". It just tickles my ironic funny bone. The coolest of cool Black Widow looks the best, but I might worry about getting it dirty. Who would dare trying to bounce over that log on that.
 
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