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I'm not sure if y'all remember my fox encounter, http://tw200forum.com/forum/off-topic/21353-me-rabid-zombie-fox.html.
Well on the 15th I finally had shoulder surgery, rotator cuff repair. It ended up being more extensive than he or I thought. Some of it was just the basic trimming of old cartilage scaring from me not being very nice to myself over the years. The fox however really messed things up. Had to have some muscle repair-stitching, tendons trimmed and pinned with 4 anchors, bursa drained. I may be a little off on what all he said as I was still groggy in post-op.

Before surgery he said I would start PT within 1-10 days of surgery, when I asked about PT in Post-op, he only told me we would talk about it in 2 weeks, when I come in to get my staples out.

Anybody else on here have this much work done, and if so how long before you were back on the trail.

P.S Percocet sucks. Percocet, Benadryl and beer = better, but still sucks
 

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Hope you have a speedy recovery bro!! :)
 

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I just read your initial post about the attack. Holy Crap!
Heal quickly
 

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I'm not sure if y'all remember my fox encounter, http://tw200forum.com/forum/off-topic/21353-me-rabid-zombie-fox.html.
Well on the 15th I finally had shoulder surgery, rotator cuff repair. It ended up being more extensive than he or I thought. Some of it was just the basic trimming of old cartilage scaring from me not being very nice to myself over the years. The fox however really messed things up. Had to have some muscle repair-stitching, tendons trimmed and pinned with 4 anchors, bursa drained. I may be a little off on what all he said as I was still groggy in post-op.

Before surgery he said I would start PT within 1-10 days of surgery, when I asked about PT in Post-op, he only told me we would talk about it in 2 weeks, when I come in to get my staples out.

Anybody else on here have this much work done, and if so how long before you were back on the trail.

P.S Percocet sucks. Percocet, Benadryl and beer = better, but still sucks

Well, well, well fellow shoulder surgery member.

Surgery in November and fully recovered at end of June.

Last year day before Thanksgiving I had shoulder surgery. Mine was very similar to yours, sew here, sew there, scrap arthritis, floating collar bone, yadda yadda.

Doc said I should keep shoulder immobilized for first 30 days. Absolutely no moving it. You'll be able to move it after a couple weeks but resist the temptation. Of course, if your doc starts you on pt that's different. My doc said not pt for 30 days.

Started pt first week of January. Ended first of March. PT Doc was highly impressed as I progressed much faster than anyone he had every seen. I had too, Moab was in mid march. PT Doc said recovery is up to the individual. If they are motivated they will try hard to "get'er done"! There was people in pt for shoulder surgery who were there before I got there and still there when I was done. Up to you!

I rode Moab with no problems though I was admittedly weaker on my surgery side but no pain. Did not affect my riding and I rode some tough trails. Little ache at the end of the day but not pain per se'.

I took it easy after Moab, no logging or shot put throwing and towards the end of June I was fully healed.

Almost 1 year later and it's like nothing had ever been wrong.

This is the short story.

Darn Foxes, hope you recover.

P.S. Mine was caused by a hikers dog who came at our mules and spooked them when we were trail riding up in the mountains. Between my out of control mule and the tree, I stuck the landing. Just not on my feet! I don't think I bounced upon impact with mother earth. Pile of potatoes I was.:p Once Mrs. Admiral retrieved my mule, it was a long ride back to camp with a bouncy hurting shoulder.

Recover well Rivershot!
 

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The PT is mostly just to give you the full range (or close) of movement. After that, it depends how fast your body heals, which is different for all of us.

I’m no doctor, but I’ve been through enough to give you some “direction” on this ….

While it’s OK to rotate the socket to let the wound heal with the maximum amount of movement, you don’t want any “jolts” while that’s going on. Let it settle down first. You’ll know when you’re overdoing it when the injured area starts to feel hot – this is a symptom of internal tissue damage. I’m normally in favour of the “no pain, no gain” routine, but in your case this can mean one step forwards, and two backwards – and I don’t need to tell you that if they have to go back in a second time, there’s going to be two pissed off people – you and the surgeon.

Staples and muscles: I had lung surgery a while back, and to their credit, the cutters did a pretty good job. Discharged from hospital within 48 hours (I heal fast). However, the muscles in the back they went through to get at the lung started to complain, and I was off work for a couple of months. Couldn’t stand up for more than 30 mins before it got so bad I had to lie down. Ended up on Morphine (strange stuff).

I remember being told by the consultant that some people make a 98% recovery, some people fare less well – and I suspect you’re going to be told the same. In my case, the lung’s fine, but the muscles took a bit longer (fine now).

So, in answer to your question – “how long is a piece of string” ?

Keep up the PT, and keep it moving. The rest is up to an agreement between your mind and your body. If you give it a chance it will heal, but push it too hard and it just takes longer. Bone takes up to 8 weeks before you can push things – muscles are more complicated.

You’ll know when you’re ready ….;)
 

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I
So, in answer to your question – “how long is a piece of string” ?

You’ll know when you’re ready ….;)
How long is a piece of string? Way too funny! Appropriate, though. I'm gonna have to use that line!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the advice and well wishes. As for the string, it is as long as 5-6 trips for PT. That's as all I have left this year on our new O-Care system. Then I get to start over, can't afford that, so I need to pay attention and learn/make myself do it on my own. I heal fast on the outside but, slower than most on the inside. I guess my thick skin is only in my head, and I have always had problems letting other do things for me. I will try to do better this time and have given my wife permission (not that it matters) to beat me anywhere else if I fail to listen.

Now I just need to figure out how to re-torq. a base gasket, rebuild a TM33 carb, rebuild a weber 32/36 carb and a few other odds and ends with 1 arm.????? Gotta stay busy!
 

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Damn, Rivershot.....I somehow missed this post when you first posted. I hope you are doing okay, and on the road to recovery. I have foxes living in the neighborhood, and haven't heard of "rabid" foxes. I will need to be on the lookout! Best wishes on speedy recovery, and luck with your projects.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
How long is a piece of string ? --- It is exactly the twice the distance as from the middle to one end -- Hope that settles that -- Scotsman
I always herd "if it was only a little longer, it…."
 

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My son Mike hit a deer in March and just went back to work. He destroyed his shoulder in the crash and apparently there's a scale of damage of 1-5. The doctor told him he was a 5. Mike had an operation to pull his shoulder back in place then followed the doctors orders and went to his PT appointments. He's doing well but I also have a friend who had a crash on his Four Wheeler and destroyed his shoulder. He is a business owner, auto mechanic and didn't follow the doctors orders. He has limited range and is not a happy camper.
 

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I just read your initial post about the attack. Holy Crap!
Heal quickly
+1

Also, I think this says a lot about the nature of a firearm in a real life panic-situation. Definitely helped you win the fight, but also tough to use effectively when your heart rate is about 200 BPM :) Now if the fox caused this much trauma - imagine a human being attacking you. Please don't mistake my comment as condescending or judgemental at all. If anything, I applaud you. I think your story might just open a few eyes (mine included) about how being prepared doesn't prepare you :)

At the end of the day - Rivershot: 1 ; Fox: 0 !
 

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I had my right shoulder done the middle of January. I was casting the fly rod by the middle of April.
I had a full thickness tear (supraspinatus) and a pretty gnarly bone spur (impingement). They put in the anchors, repaired the tear, did an acromioplasty, and a sub-acromial decompression.

That was actually my first surgery/operation, and after it was done and I'd ease out of my sling and try to do the initial exercises and thought, "might as well just cut this arm off because it'll never work again."

I read a lot of stuff and talked to a lot of people. My PT that I had gone to before the surgery, and that I would be going to after, said "Do the exercises, keep it mobile. " She was right. I religiously did the mobility exercises, and might have pushed them a little bit even. I'm talking about the exercises that you start a few days post surgery that keep you from freezing up, the ones where you just hang your arm loose and use your body to start swinging it side to side and back and forth. My surgeon doesn't like the circle style...just side-side and forward-back.
So, by keeping the mobility up, I managed to avoid all the pain and suffering that everybody complains about when you start PT again. The painful stretching, walking the fingers up a wall and trying not to cry. My PT gal was really surprised, and when I went back to the surgeon for the follow-up, he said "Do this, do this, do that....." and then he said, "Pffft, no problems there..." Some of the PT hurt, but apparently I had kept things mobile enough that I avoided the painful stretching that a lot of people have to go through (from not doing their exercises). As soon as you're allowed to start moving it, get it moving. Don't lift or anything, but do the mobility exercises.

You've likely already noticed that every single lay-z-boy recliner on earth has the handle or button on the RIGHT side, right? Something I never thought about until I pretty much lived in one for several weeks.

If you can possibly resist the urge to take the sling off and crawl into be like a normal person, do it. It'll feel so nice to lay down and just "ahhhhh". They you'll wake up with your arm pretzel'd up behind your head or pinned underneath you and you'll open your eyes and want to die immediately, followed by untangling yourself, then about 7 hours of a dull ache and wondering if you tore something to crap and will have to start all over.

It was hell on earth at the time, but honestly, when it was all said and done it wasn't that bad. There were a lot of times I'd have given anything for more than an hour and a half of sleep though....

My surgery was January 18th, I was casting the fly rod on opening day (April 15). Not going crazy, but I was doing it. I don't remember when I was back on the ATV but it was right around that time too. Easy riding, obviously, but was riding nonetheless.

When you start trying stuff again, listen to your body...do something about 25%, then take note of how you feel about 6 hours later. Adjust......I found that when I got back at fly fishing, I couldn't stand in one place and flog a pool. I could, however, fish a pool for a little while, then walk down the river and relax and let the current take the fly down through the runs to the fish. I was still fishing, and didn't beat myself half to death in the process.

The ATV was nice to get back on (Just got my TW a month ago), but like I said, I took it easy, just tooling along smooth trails I know, etc. A TW, I'd say look at conditions and go from there. If you're about to cross a line, just visualize all the internal parts of your shoulder completely torn to rat-shit by a simple tip-over. For me, that would be enough to make me stop and think, "Should I be doing this...?" If you're still healing and you dump it, you're either sticking your arm out or you're tucking it in and landing right on the shoulder. Neither one is good. At least with the ATV you can take it easy and take the 'falling over' part out of the mix.

One thing that kind of set my mind at easy was when my PT told me, "You're at the point now where if you do something you shouldn't have done, you'll just hurt, but you aren't going to rip apart anything that was fixed." I don't remember when that point was....but it was like a hall pass. I could do what I wanted (within reason) and if I overdid it, I'd just hurt for a couple days. No harm, no foul.

She (my PT) said it will be a year before I'm HEALED and pretty much back the way I was. It's been 10 months and I still get a reminder here and there. Yesterday I took my trailer and helped a buddy pick up a mattress, bring it in the house, then return the old one. Up some stairs, around some corners, stupid new mattresses with no handles....I'm feeling it today. BUT, I admit to having slacked off on exercising it. A co-worker is a gym-guy and had essentially the same work done a few years ago. He says he'll feel it starting to hurt after doing a certain task, and he'll put the recovery exercises back into his routing for a little while, then the shoulder pain goes away again. I don't know how long you have to keep at it like that, but it likely wouldn't hurt to do the strength exercises forever...?
 

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I think that even if you don't keep something mobile during recovery, you can usually force mobility back into it over time. That's basically what I did with my shattered wrist. I didn't move the thing AT ALL during the healing process. I had very little mobility in it and push ups hurt like a BITCH (it couldn't handle pressure at that angle, or even reach that angle without fairly intense pain!!) for a year or so after "recovery", but I basically gritted through the pain and did the push ups anyway. Also I started constantly stretching and intentionally bending my wrist back to the point where it started to hurt, and then I'd hold it there - always pushing it close to the limit. Eventually (two or three years later) it pretty much stopped hurting completely. Basically, in my experience, absolute-complete-and-total recovery can take place over several years. Don't despair, and don't accept any malfucntion or poor function - do what you have to do to get it all back :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I had my right shoulder done the middle of January. I was casting the fly rod by the middle of April.
I had a full thickness tear (supraspinatus) and a pretty gnarly bone spur (impingement). They put in the anchors, repaired the tear, did an acromioplasty, and a sub-acromial decompression.

That was actually my first surgery/operation, and after it was done and I'd ease out of my sling and try to do the initial exercises and thought, "might as well just cut this arm off because it'll never work again."

I read a lot of stuff and talked to a lot of people. My PT that I had gone to before the surgery, and that I would be going to after, said "Do the exercises, keep it mobile. " She was right. I religiously did the mobility exercises, and might have pushed them a little bit even. I'm talking about the exercises that you start a few days post surgery that keep you from freezing up, the ones where you just hang your arm loose and use your body to start swinging it side to side and back and forth. My surgeon doesn't like the circle style...just side-side and forward-back.
So, by keeping the mobility up, I managed to avoid all the pain and suffering that everybody complains about when you start PT again. The painful stretching, walking the fingers up a wall and trying not to cry. My PT gal was really surprised, and when I went back to the surgeon for the follow-up, he said "Do this, do this, do that....." and then he said, "Pffft, no problems there..." Some of the PT hurt, but apparently I had kept things mobile enough that I avoided the painful stretching that a lot of people have to go through (from not doing their exercises). As soon as you're allowed to start moving it, get it moving. Don't lift or anything, but do the mobility exercises.

You've likely already noticed that every single lay-z-boy recliner on earth has the handle or button on the RIGHT side, right? Something I never thought about until I pretty much lived in one for several weeks.

If you can possibly resist the urge to take the sling off and crawl into be like a normal person, do it. It'll feel so nice to lay down and just "ahhhhh". They you'll wake up with your arm pretzel'd up behind your head or pinned underneath you and you'll open your eyes and want to die immediately, followed by untangling yourself, then about 7 hours of a dull ache and wondering if you tore something to crap and will have to start all over.

It was hell on earth at the time, but honestly, when it was all said and done it wasn't that bad. There were a lot of times I'd have given anything for more than an hour and a half of sleep though....

My surgery was January 18th, I was casting the fly rod on opening day (April 15). Not going crazy, but I was doing it. I don't remember when I was back on the ATV but it was right around that time too. Easy riding, obviously, but was riding nonetheless.

When you start trying stuff again, listen to your body...do something about 25%, then take note of how you feel about 6 hours later. Adjust......I found that when I got back at fly fishing, I couldn't stand in one place and flog a pool. I could, however, fish a pool for a little while, then walk down the river and relax and let the current take the fly down through the runs to the fish. I was still fishing, and didn't beat myself half to death in the process.

The ATV was nice to get back on (Just got my TW a month ago), but like I said, I took it easy, just tooling along smooth trails I know, etc. A TW, I'd say look at conditions and go from there. If you're about to cross a line, just visualize all the internal parts of your shoulder completely torn to rat-shit by a simple tip-over. For me, that would be enough to make me stop and think, "Should I be doing this...?" If you're still healing and you dump it, you're either sticking your arm out or you're tucking it in and landing right on the shoulder. Neither one is good. At least with the ATV you can take it easy and take the 'falling over' part out of the mix.

One thing that kind of set my mind at easy was when my PT told me, "You're at the point now where if you do something you shouldn't have done, you'll just hurt, but you aren't going to rip apart anything that was fixed." I don't remember when that point was....but it was like a hall pass. I could do what I wanted (within reason) and if I overdid it, I'd just hurt for a couple days. No harm, no foul.

She (my PT) said it will be a year before I'm HEALED and pretty much back the way I was. It's been 10 months and I still get a reminder here and there. Yesterday I took my trailer and helped a buddy pick up a mattress, bring it in the house, then return the old one. Up some stairs, around some corners, stupid new mattresses with no handles....I'm feeling it today. BUT, I admit to having slacked off on exercising it. A co-worker is a gym-guy and had essentially the same work done a few years ago. He says he'll feel it starting to hurt after doing a certain task, and he'll put the recovery exercises back into his routing for a little while, then the shoulder pain goes away again. I don't know how long you have to keep at it like that, but it likely wouldn't hurt to do the strength exercises forever...?
Lots of good info, thanks. I hope to come out of this as well as you did. I have resisted the bed, but I sure miss it. Yeah the little jolts from just being in a car hurt like hell. I have good hand and elbow movement now and keep those moving and try too keep the shoulder moving passively, if no more than getting dressed and taking the sling on and off a few times a day. I go back to the doc next Wednesday and will get to find out what all he did then.

The 1.5 hours of sleep you mention only happens about every other day or so, mostly living off of lots of 20min. naps sitting straight up, indian style, scares the hell out of Leslie, she thinks I'm going to fall face first out of the chair. I woke up onetime with pillows pilled on the floor in front of me.lol
 

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Discussion Starter #20
+1

Also, I think this says a lot about the nature of a firearm in a real life panic-situation. Definitely helped you win the fight, but also tough to use effectively when your heart rate is about 200 BPM :) Now if the fox caused this much trauma - imagine a human being attacking you. Please don't mistake my comment as condescending or judgemental at all. If anything, I applaud you. I think your story might just open a few eyes (mine included) about how being prepared doesn't prepare you :)

At the end of the day - Rivershot: 1 ; Fox: 0 !


Most training, be it bike, car or self defense is focused on likely scenarios, life likes to throw you surprises. What little firearm training I have along with a lot of practice allowed me to slow down, mentally and physically, to grab a rest for my shaky hands, check my backstop and aim before firing and not just jump out of the truck blasting away like I wanted to. I'm not sure it would have turned out the same if the Fox was shooting back.

The flight or fight is strong in all of us. Flight was my only choice at first but, once in the bed of the truck it became decision time not just instinct. I decided to win the fight. If it had been a human I would have gone back into flight mode once safe in the truck.
 
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