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Discussion Starter #1
Not trying to be a smart-ass, and to some extent I guess it makes sense. Still, I'm thinking that recent developments may have made mods like that unnecessary for most of us.



I get it that some of us go way off the beaten path, and that getting back is not guaranteed if the bike won't start. Nobody likes to walk out and leave a lot of camping gear,



personal items and of course the bike to the mercy of whomever passes by. Still, I think some put the kicker on primarily because they don't like to deal with having a low or



dead battery when taking the bike out for an infrequent ride from home. Chargers, etc.



Back in '84 I was nervous when I bought my new Honda V65 V4 which had no kick starter. First bike I ever owned without one. It turned out OK, despite my misgivings.



Later Deltran brought out their Battery Tender, made primarily for bikes. By hooking up the supplied pigtail to the battery and running it to an accessible place on the exterior



of the bike, plugging in a charger no longer involved digging through bodywork to get to the battery.



Much easier, but still a PITA if you are in a hurry and the battery is down.



A couple of years ago new technology made low batteries and chargers almost obsolete. I'm talking about lithium-ion batteries.



A few firms brought out those new batteries sized for bikes. Shorai and AntiGravity were the first that I saw. Early reports were almost unbelievably good.



I had a one year old Ducati 1100 V-twin which was a slow starter with the stock battery. The battery tested perfectly so there was no logic to replacing it with another like it.



I dreaded the day when it would go from "slow starter" to "non starter" because the battery on that bike was buried down inside the bike and would take a good mechanic with



a full assortment of tools half an hour to reach it. I ordered a new AntiGravity battery for it.



When it arrived two days later I opened the package and could not believe it. The old battery weighed close to ten pounds and was huge in dimensions. The new li-ion battery



weighed two pounds and would have easily fit in a pocket of my cargo shorts. It came with some foam pads to keep it from sliding around in the battery box.



The Ducati started up with the first touch of the button. Since then it occasionally is slow, but definitely an improvement over the stocker. Both AntiGravity and Shorai say that



the discharge rate on their batteries is so low that they can sit without being used for up to a year and still start a bike.



I got very sick in November 2011. Did not ride at all for 3 months and didn't ride the Duc for more than four months. After sitting all that time without being charged, it



started immediately. (Fortunately I had put Star-Tron in the gas tank) I'm convinced.



AntiGravity states the life expectancy as four or five years. It has been in my bike for almost two years. Shorai claims five or six years for theirs.



The AntiGravity battery is older technology than the Shorai. The AG has more cold cranking amps than the Shorai but the Shorai has more reserve capacity. Next time I'll



probably go for the Shorai.



Either battery can be charged, so long as the charger has no de-sulfating cycle. The Deltrans do not.



The first thing I put on my TW was a Deltran charger pigtail. Pulling the seat to access the battery is a PITA, and that problem is solved. I'll be ordering a new Shorai for it



before long. The only downside is cost,(around $150.) but pro-rated over 5 or 6 years it is certainly worth it to me. Unless I do something dumb,like running a lot of power



tools or accessories off it, my TW will start, period.



I understand that a kick starter kit for a TW results in the cases supporting the shaft with no internal support. The cases break, I am told. Not to mention the additional



weight. Instead of adding weight, the li-ion battery takes weight off.



For those who have a kick starter, I'm not knocking them, but for those thinking of adding them, I'm offering the idea that it may be unnecessary. Food for thought.



NOTE: I originally called my battery a ZeroGravity. It is really an AntiGravity. I just corrected it.
 

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I live virtually at the end of the line. After three years my battery has failed the cost to fly the battery in three years ago was $254. Batteries even when dry are red lable cargo and have premium surcharges on them.

Right now a kick starter would work to keep me riding.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You may be right, but consider that the new li-ion batteries contain neither acid nor lead, are considered environmentally friendly and weigh a fraction of the lead-acid batteries, I'd check to see if the cost might be much less. Maybe call Shorai?
 

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The TW200 is super easy to push start, don't ask me how I know. Turned the ignition on, I put the choke all the way out, put the bike in 2nd, ran a bit with the clutch in jumped on, popped the clutch and she started right up. If you have a small incline, it's easier, you can skip the jumping on part. After I did that, I realized that I no longer needed to install a kick starter. Your results may vary, see a doctor if symptoms return, use as directed,
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Chip, that does not surprise me at all. I had a 250 Bultaco Matador back in the late 60s. European metal quality was still spotty for a couple of decades after WW2. That Bultaco had a kick starter shaft made out of something with the apparent strength of cheddar cheese. I had to split the cases to change it, so I often delayed and just push-started it. I even went trail riding with no starter of any kind. I got used to parking it on a hill, if available.



Not as easy on a loaded-down TW, but not impossible.
 

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You may be right, but consider that the new li-ion batteries contain neither acid nor lead, are considered environmentally friendly and weigh a fraction of the lead-acid batteries, I'd check to see if the cost might be much less. Maybe call Shorai?
Ordered a Shorai lithium battery and charger this afternoon in time for their same day shipping. With a bit of luck it will be here mid week and if the weather cooperates I will be riding late this week.
 

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I understand that a kick starter kit for a TW results in the cases supporting the shaft with no internal support. The cases break, I am told.


Hi Phantom,



I am not sure who told you this, but I respectfully disagree. Having removed and re-installed several kickers on a couple of TW's, I can assure you that the kickstarter shaft/gear is well supported on both the engine case end and the clutch cover end.



Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Brian, as I said,the part about the kick starter shaft was hearsay. I'll certainly take your word over what I hear on the street.



The part about the li-ion battery, however, is not hearsay. It is legit.
 

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when it's 10 degF with a dead battery and your wearing snowmobile bibs, gloves, boots, a couple sweatshirts under your heavy coat trying to push start your bike is no fun. By the third try pushing my bike up the driveway I was sweating so bad I thought I was going to passout.
 

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Wise a$$ on:



"I don't need a Li-ion battery. I have a kick starter.

And I don't need a battery tender, I have a kick starter.

And where ever I am I don't have to push start -- I have a kick starter."



Wise a$$ off:

 

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Couldn't stand it. Battery had enough to start the bikes so I just did a 30km ride. It is the warmest day so far this summer so a tshirt and gloves were all that I needed. What a great day to be riding.
 

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Went riding a couple of weeks ago with a TW Friend. For some reason he had an electrical issue that did not allow the electric start to work. Instead of delaying our departure time, or deal with pushing the bike around to bump start, he just used the kicker. After a few miles, Mike had a chance to think a bit about the problem and had a plan. We pulled over, and after a few minutes, he replaced the fuse and the electric start was back in action.



In my opinion, kick starters are a big plus for off pavement folks. Sure, bump starts are possible, but at 63, I would rather push a button or push down on the kicker arm. Given the cost or the time, if you do dirt (a lot) you want a kicker. Again, just my opinion. Gerry
 

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I have just installed the kickstarter kit on my 2005. Sure it cost $130 .... but not having to bumpstart and jump over my rear rack (with my lack of grace) makes it priceless !!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think I put enough disclaimers in my original paragraph, but just in case, here it is again. For those who have them and like them, I'm not really directing this at you. For some who live way out there, it may be life insurance, but for those who see adding one as a convenience there is another option. Get a battery which is very unlikely to go flat for several years. Cost is not really an issue. The battery is not cheap. For me it is all I need. Just sayin'.
 

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I have had my starter motor and my starter clutch go out at separate times. With either one of those out, the electric starter won't work. Sure you could bump start it, but sometimes you're between a rock and a hard place, literally. I'm very fortunate that my bike (1990) came with a kick starter. Its really too bad that the new ones don't. Oh, and I do have a Shorai and its sweet!
 

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I'd be quite content if the TW were kick-only, but I'm danged disappointed with manufacturers' logic which has determined that button-only is "progess".



Dumb.
 

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Not trying to be a smart-ass, and to some extent I guess it makes sense. Still, I'm thinking that recent developments may have made mods like that unnecessary for most of us.



I get it that some of us go way off the beaten path, and that getting back is not guaranteed if the bike won't start. Nobody likes to walk out and leave a lot of camping gear,



personal items and of course the bike to the mercy of whomever passes by. Still, I think some put the kicker on primarily because they don't like to deal with having a low or



dead battery when taking the bike out for an infrequent ride from home. Chargers, etc.



Back in '84 I was nervous when I bought my new Honda V65 V4 which had no kick starter. First bike I ever owned without one. It turned out OK, despite my misgivings.



Later Deltran brought out their Battery Tender, made primarily for bikes. By hooking up the supplied pigtail to the battery and running it to an accessible place on the exterior



of the bike, plugging in a charger no longer involved digging through bodywork to get to the battery.



Much easier, but still a PITA if you are in a hurry and the battery is down.



A couple of years ago new technology made low batteries and chargers almost obsolete. I'm talking about lithium-ion batteries.



A few firms brought out those new batteries sized for bikes. Shorai and AntiGravity were the first that I saw. Early reports were almost unbelievably good.



I had a one year old Ducati 1100 V-twin which was a slow starter with the stock battery. The battery tested perfectly so there was no logic to replacing it with another like it.



I dreaded the day when it would go from "slow starter" to "non starter" because the battery on that bike was buried down inside the bike and would take a good mechanic with



a full assortment of tools half an hour to reach it. I ordered a new AntiGravity battery for it.



When it arrived two days later I opened the package and could not believe it. The old battery weighed close to ten pounds and was huge in dimensions. The new li-ion battery



weighed two pounds and would have easily fit in a pocket of my cargo shorts. It came with some foam pads to keep it from sliding around in the battery box.



The Ducati started up with the first touch of the button. Since then it occasionally is slow, but definitely an improvement over the stocker. Both AntiGravity and Shorai say that



the discharge rate on their batteries is so low that they can sit without being used for up to a year and still start a bike.



I got very sick in November 2011. Did not ride at all for 3 months and didn't ride the Duc for more than four months. After sitting all that time without being charged, it



started immediately. (Fortunately I had put Star-Tron in the gas tank) I'm convinced.



AntiGravity states the life expectancy as four or five years. It has been in my bike for almost two years. Shorai claims five or six years for theirs.



The AntiGravity battery is older technology than the Shorai. The AG has more cold cranking amps than the Shorai but the Shorai has more reserve capacity. Next time I'll



probably go for the Shorai.



Either battery can be charged, so long as the charger has no de-sulfating cycle. The Deltrans do not.



The first thing I put on my TW was a Deltran charger pigtail. Pulling the seat to access the battery is a PITA, and that problem is solved. I'll be ordering a new Shorai for it



before long. The only downside is cost,(around $150.) but pro-rated over 5 or 6 years it is certainly worth it to me. Unless I do something dumb,like running a lot of power



tools or accessories off it, my TW will start, period.



I understand that a kick starter kit for a TW results in the cases supporting the shaft with no internal support. The cases break, I am told. Not to mention the additional



weight. Instead of adding weight, the li-ion battery takes weight off.



For those who have a kick starter, I'm not knocking them, but for those thinking of adding them, I'm offering the idea that it may be unnecessary. Food for thought.



NOTE: I originally called my battery a ZeroGravity. It is really an AntiGravity. I just corrected it.
You may not require the redundancy of a kick starter but a lot of people do. I don't have any idea what the environmental conditions are like in the San Diego area but where I travel a secondary way of starting the engine can be very important, possibly even life saving. Push starting is not always an option. Your idea of having the best battery available while valid, should be in addition to a kick starter and not instead of a secondary means of starting. I'm not trying to preach here but unless you've faced a 40 mile walk in the wilderness when your technology has let you down, you may not appreciate having as many backups as possible. Shame on Yamaha for discontinuing the kickstarter to save a couple of bucks.
 
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