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Discussion Starter #1
Thomas Jefferson




His Portrait is on the Two $2.00
Dollar Bill.

This is amazing.
There are two parts.
Be sure to read
the 2nd part in
RED .

Thomas Jefferson
was a very remarkable man who started
learning very early in life and never stopped.

At 5, began
studying under his cousin's tutor..

At 9, studied
Latin, Greek and French.

At 14, studied
classical literature and additional languages.

At 16, entered
the College of William and Mary..
Also could write in Greek with one hand
while writing the same in Latin with the other.

At 19, studied
Law for 5 years starting under George Wythe.

At 23, started
his own law practice.

At 25, was
elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses.

At 31, wrote the
widely circulated "Summary View of the Rights of British America " And
retired from his law practice.
At 32, was a
delegate to the Second Continental Congress.

At 33, wrote the
Declaration of Independence .

At 33, took
three years to revise Virginia's legal code and wrote a Public Education
bill and a statute for Religious Freedom.

At 36, was
elected the second Governor of Virginia succeeding Patrick Henry.

At 40, served in congress for two years.

At 41, was the
American minister to France and
negotiated commercial treaties with
European nations along with Ben

Franklin and John Adams..

At 46, served as
the first Secretary of State
under George Washington.

At 53, served as
Vice President and was elected
president of the American Philosophical Society.

At 55, drafted
the Kentucky Resolutions and
became the active head of Republican Party.

At 57, was
elected the third president of the
United States.

At 60, obtained
the Louisiana Purchase doubling
the nation's size.

At 61, was
elected to a second term as President.

At 65, retired to Monticello ..

At 80, helped
President Monroe shape the
Monroe Doctrine.

At 81, almost
single-handedly created the University of Virginia and served as its first
president.

At 83, died on
the 50th anniversary of the Signing of the Declaration of Independence along
with John Adams.

Thomas Jefferson
knew because he himself studied the previous failed attempts at government.
He understood
actual history, the nature of God, His laws and the nature
of man. That happens to be way more than what most understand
today.

Jefferson really knew his stuff.

A voice from the
past to lead us in the future:

John F. Kennedy
held a dinner in the White House for a group of the brightest minds
in the nation at that time. He made this statement: "This is perhaps
the assembly of
the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in
the White House with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined
alone."


"When we
get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall

become as corrupt as Europe ."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those= who are

willing to work and give to those who would not."

--
Thomas
Jefferson

"It is
incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes.
A
principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the
world."

--
Thomas
Jefferson

"I
predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

Thomas
Jefferson

"My
reading of history convinces me that most bad government
results from too much government." --
Thomas
Jefferson

"No free
man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"The
strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a

last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in
government."

--
Thomas
Jefferson

"The
tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the

blood of patriots and tyrants."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he
disbelieves and
abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than
standing armies.

If the
American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their
currency, first by

inflation, then by deflation, the

banks and corporations that will grow up around
the banks will

deprive the people of all property - until

their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered."

I wish we could
get this out to every American!

I'm doing my
part.

So Please do
yours.


GaryL
 

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Tubman-20-460x500.jpg I'm not sure replacing Jefferson on the twenty dollar bill is such a good idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

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Jefferson was amazing. Quite representative of the times. Like other founders of this nation, Wealthy landed gentry. Certainly
not a "common" man. He early on recognized the inhumanity of slavery though he missed the absurdity of ignoring females as members of
society (no vote for them!). It was a long time ago when a small wealthy group could claim they knew what the people wanted/needed. Also a time of
unlimited resources. Jefferson and his cohorts developed a great system that worked well for a short period. Unfortunately, as a nation we ignored the warnings of
separation of church and state. We also never faced the reality of an economy based on constantly growing but with diminishing resources, clearly a recipe for disaster. Unless of course your religious and believe there is no need for conservation/sustainability as you believe God is coming for you to take you elsewhere (can you say Reagan).
Nowdaze we are faced with a government that unable to do much due to politics, which is worse than "doing the wrong thing". IMHO we also have a governing body that does not represent the will of the majority, indeed has no real clue who is the majority and makes decisions based on faith in Christian teachings rather than facts. The whole world is in peril due to inequitable resource distribution, diminishing resources and overpopulation. Complicated by folks who just can't grasp that the system isn't working anymore and needs change. But cannot change as long as people remain dogmatic that nothing is wrong, we just have to have faith in God.......
 
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There is one solution.


Unless this happens, we are dust in the wind and America is doomed.
 

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I really liked that article Gary. +1 :D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There is one solution.


Unless this happens, we are dust in the wind and America is doomed.
I understand where you are coming from Tommy but I don't agree with your assessment. Religion won't hurt but following the rule of law will always be our best defense IMHO! The Constitution, Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights are our best guides even today and the founding fathers work very hard and very smart to get it as close to right as has ever been done in this world. Jefferson's quotes in red tell a lot of what has gone awry in the original plans and those of us who are strict Constitutionalists will appreciate his warnings. Men and woman of the caliber of our founding fathers do still exist but it is very unlikely we would ever elect them today. We just lost one not long ago in Judge Antonin Scallia and replacing him will be a very tough order for the next President. As with all written texts, translating the words and meaning of our Constitution has been an ongoing affair since it was written and only the very smartest of jurists ever get it right. Much of the real meanings can be found in the Federalist Papers but few will even bother to read them. I honestly believe a man of Thomas Jefferson's intelligence and stature would be laughed off the podium today.

GaryL
 

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I understand where you are coming from Tommy but I don't agree with your assessment. Religion won't hurt but following the rule of law will always be our best defense IMHO! The Constitution, Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights are our best guides even today and the founding fathers work very hard and very smart to get it as close to right as has ever been done in this world. Jefferson's quotes in red tell a lot of what has gone awry in the original plans and those of us who are strict Constitutionalists will appreciate his warnings. Men and woman of the caliber of our founding fathers do still exist but it is very unlikely we would ever elect them today. We just lost one not long ago in Judge Antonin Scallia and replacing him will be a very tough order for the next President. As with all written texts, translating the words and meaning of our Constitution has been an ongoing affair since it was written and only the very smartest of jurists ever get it right. Much of the real meanings can be found in the Federalist Papers but few will even bother to read them. I honestly believe a man of Thomas Jefferson's intelligence and stature would be laughed off the podium today.

GaryL
And when it all caves in around us, who will you turn to? (not meant as a "diss" at all, brother G)

Me?, I'm trusting the Lord all the way; He's never let me down, not even once.

Things are going to get a lot worse, we haven't seen anything yet.

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

It is time now that we start considering such things and getting our souls prepared; before it's too late.

Bad Bad Times are coming soon...

Wake up my dear friends.
 

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Jefferson was amazing. Quite representative of the times. Like other founders of this nation, Wealthy landed gentry. Certainly
not a "common" man. He early on recognized the inhumanity of slavery though he missed the absurdity of ignoring females as members of
society (no vote for them!). It was a long time ago when a small wealthy group could claim they knew what the people wanted/needed. Also a time of
unlimited resources. Jefferson and his cohorts developed a great system that worked well for a short period. Unfortunately, as a nation we ignored the warnings of
separation of church and state. We also never faced the reality of an economy based on constantly growing but with diminishing resources, clearly a recipe for disaster. Unless of course your religious and believe there is no need for conservation/sustainability as you believe God is coming for you to take you elsewhere (can you say Reagan).
Nowdaze we are faced with a government that unable to do much due to politics, which is worse than "doing the wrong thing". IMHO we also have a governing body that does not represent the will of the majority, indeed has no real clue who is the majority and makes decisions based on faith in Christian teachings rather than facts. The whole world is in peril due to inequitable resource distribution, diminishing resources and overpopulation. Complicated by folks who just can't grasp that the system isn't working anymore and needs change. But cannot change as long as people remain dogmatic that nothing is wrong, we just have to have faith in God.......
"does not represent the will of the majority, indeed has no real clue who is the majority and makes decisions based on faith in Christian teachings rather than facts."

Where do you come up with this reasoning!?!? Morality cannot be legislated but the constant defamation of organised religion has been quite successful at painting it as archaic. Congratulations to all who have led the charge on getting religion removed from schools and public forums etc.... You and you ALONE have created a wondrous nation!


Tom
 

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I understand where you are coming from Tommy but I don't agree with your assessment. Religion won't hurt but following the rule of law will always be our best defense IMHO! The Constitution, Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights are our best guides even today and the founding fathers work very hard and very smart to get it as close to right as has ever been done in this world. Jefferson's quotes in red tell a lot of what has gone awry in the original plans and those of us who are strict Constitutionalists will appreciate his warnings. Men and woman of the caliber of our founding fathers do still exist but it is very unlikely we would ever elect them today. We just lost one not long ago in Judge Antonin Scallia and replacing him will be a very tough order for the next President. As with all written texts, translating the words and meaning of our Constitution has been an ongoing affair since it was written and only the very smartest of jurists ever get it right. Much of the real meanings can be found in the Federalist Papers but few will even bother to read them. I honestly believe a man of Thomas Jefferson's intelligence and stature would be laughed off the podium today.

GaryL
I understand the intent of this Gary but man made law's and man's interpretation of those laws without the grace of God is largely what has caused this mess.


Tom
 

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And when it all caves in around us, who will you turn to? (not meant as a "diss" at all, brother G)

Me?, I'm trusting the Lord all the way; He's never let me down, not even once.

Things are going to get a lot worse, we haven't seen anything yet.

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

It is time now that we start considering such things and getting our souls prepared; before it's too late.

Bad Bad Times are coming soon...

Wake up my dear friends.
From Isaiah Chapter 1
7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith theLord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

But thankfully; for all of us; God provided a way to not experience His wrath one day.


[h=1]John 3:16-17[/h]16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
 
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To me, the simple answer is the Ten Commandments. These are the laws of man. If there is no God, then murder is only a harm caused in your own mind.. Thievery is just a disappointment in your own view. Go after your neighbors wife. Curse the Lord and take his name in vain.


....

Ya know it has become bad, evil, to think bad of gays, and to think that it's bigotry, not to approve of letting men piss in the women's rest room. I suppose, it's just me then that also thinks that it should be OK for older men to lay down with children, or older women to lay down with children.

After all, if they're both consenting, where is the harm?

I'm sure we will get to the point where murder, thievery, every thing else spelled out by God as Wrong will be accepted as being OK.

Why wait? Lets start at the end now.
 

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In theological discussions I will gladly pass the torch to those more learned than myself. To keep my view simplistic and to keep the conversation on track let me just say that I trust no man that does not deep within himself believe that he will one day be held accountable for all of the wickedness he has done. Myself included. I do not require that the "higher power" be the same as my own.



Tom
 
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Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. The only thing I mistrust more than the government, is religion.
Man made god in his own image, and a piss poor roll model that was.
Man needs desperately to learn to be responsible for his own mistakes and not use religion as a crutch for the lack of that responsibility.
 

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[ANDREW DICE CLAY VOICE] Jefferson, Jackson, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE! [ /ANDREW DICE CLAY VOICE]

Both owned slaves. It was what was done at the time. Every, no, most, thought it was OK at the time, the times they lived in.

...just like the debauchery we think is OK today.
 

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Jefferson was brilliant there is no doubt... But I am a firm believer that we as human kind make 99.9% of our own issues. People have come to think of government hand outs as rights not privileges. I have seen too many people lose a job then stay on unemployment because it is easier then finding a new job. Now I do not have a problem with short term help, but when life knocks you down you stand up not put your hand out. If people have lost their moral fiber then they have lost their work ethic as well.
 

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No one will be able to stand before God and say they haven't been warned. Salvation is a free gift. All you have to do is ask for it.

Look up "people's last words" online someday... You'd be surprised how many people suddenly realized that moment when their soul was leaving this mortal body; that they'd made a grave mistake.

We perhaps tell ourselves; "I'll deal with that later, after I've had my fun, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera".

Will you have time, before that moment occurs; when God decides "it is Judgement Day for you"; to beg for His Mercy and Repent? Not all of us will die a slow death, having time to think about such things. It can happen in an instant; as we all know. It would be most unwise to wait until later to accept Christ as your Saviour.

When I asked Jesus into my life on November 17th, 1971, I wasn't even really sure if He was real. I simply said: "Lord, if you are real, come into my life, forgive me and help me" In a twinkling of an eye, I felt God's Holy Spirit rush through me from head to toe and at that moment; all the sin, shame and burden's were gone. I HAD NO DOUBT; I had just been forgiven and my life has never been the same since. He gave me peace and inner joy, that I'd never had before, ever. It was the most wonderful, wonderful, wonderful experience I have ever had in my life. I could never repay Him for all He has done for me.

If you mean business with God, He'll mean business with you; and do exactly what He said He would do. Forgive you.

There are no unbelievers in foxholes when the bombs are falling around you.

Who do you want to be there for you when you die? The "Grim Reaper" or the "Angels of God" to take you to the place you deserve?

It is our own stubbornness and love of sin that will condemn us. And we all know what we are doing, so there will be no excuse.

Please Please Please, do not wait until it is too late. I love you guys here and want to see you some day in Heaven.

Dear Precious Father in Heaven, touch each soul that reads this and let them feel your gentle calling as I did. In Jesus's name and for the Glory of God; I ask you to reach out and touch my friends here; now. Amen.
 
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